God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus

[kogseeker]

All true Christians from the first century on believed in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.Because if HE wasn't virgin borned his blood would have been tainted and justification for fallen mankind wouldn't be possible.So belief in the virgin birth and diety of Christ are essentials of The Faith.

Hey, Spirit-filled, can you explain this a little better?

It's my understanding, though I am not a doctor, that the blood of a fetus is its own, that it doesn't share its blood with either the mother or the father. The mother's blood never passes through the placental boundary.

So if the fetus has its own blood, what difference does it make concerning not getting "contaminated blood" from a human father?

Furthermore, are you saying that Mary's blood was not "contaminated", that she did not have a sin nature just because she was a virgin? Does having sex cause a woman's sin nature to change from latent to active? Or was Mary, as most Catholics believe, sinless? If so, how did she achieve that sinless state considering that she herself was born of a human father? Did the Holy Spirit purify her blood when he came upon her to get her pregnant? If so, then being a virgin wouldn't have been necessary, would it?

[Goonerman]

The terms 'Father and Son' are human anthropomorphic terms for the first two Persons in the Trinity representing how the Wisdom of God comes from God 'the Father'. In the case of God the Son, God of God, Light of Light, begotten not created, being conceived by the Spirit overshadowing Mary, to refer to God having sex with Mary to produce Jesus is an oxymoron, since God in His Wisdom, Logos, Second Person of the Trinity actually by His power became the actual child conceived in Mary's womb. God by His power became the child in Mary's womb, that is what happened. The Father sent the Son to enter Mary's womb by the Spirit, who then activated her egg around God the Son who had somehow compressed His infinite self in Mary's womb. Sex had no involvement in the procedure whatsoever, and the Virgin Birth was necessary for this child to be God Himself manifest in human flesh, and not any other kid. Nothing else needs to be said. As Gabriel says, this is why the child will be called the Son of God (ie the Father who sent Him). Jesus' Sonship to His Father is to do with His coming eternally from the Father and being sent from the throne of Heaven via the Spirit into Mary's womb.

As for Mary, Joseph and Jesus' siblings, Mary was a virgin only for the birth of Jesus. Matthew states clearly that Mary and Joseph did not have sex until Jesus was born. Which means they did have sex afterwards. Luke calls Jesus Mary's firstborn, a boy. Possibly indicating that she had girls as well as boys by Joseph. In Mark 3 and the other Synoptics, the siblings of Jesus, both brothers and sisters, are always mentioned in connection with Mary.

Finally, as to Mary's sinful condition, being an ordinary person in need of a Saviour like the rest of us imperfect people, Mary rejoiced in God her Saviour in the Magnificat, and she offered a sin offering, as seen when getting herself purified in the Temple after giving birth to Jesus, in accordance with the Law when she sacrificed a pigeon and a turtle dove, one as a thanksgiving offering, the other as a sin offering.

[Okieshowedem]

How many Laws found in the Torah would this break?
Would you let God knock your wife up?
I would not!
By the way if as Christian believe Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of God what does that make Jesus?

Okieshowedem

[bigsplit]

He's generally thought to have been pretty old by the time he married her, mainly just to help her out.

This does not hold true because she was going to marry him before she became pregnant, this is why the angel came to him. It is silly to believe she was a virgin her whole life and that Jesus did not have brothers. If the logic is that he married her just to help her out, it would be just as logical to say Jesus married the other Mary to help her out. The hyperbole used to generate Chrst deity is amazing at times and now in modern times where magic and Pagan Gods in heavenly chariots are no longer the competition, these embellishments are doing more harm to the true miracle of Jesus Christ..............HIS MESSAGE!!!!! That is what is important. But, we love dogma and the magic stories....kinda like a kid and Saint Nick.

[Rusty T]

Matthew states clearly that Mary and Joseph did not have sex until Jesus was born. Which means they did have sex afterwards.

Scripture Verse:

Matthew 1:24-25, When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

What was Matthew trying to say here? Was he trying to pinpoint the moment that sex occurred between Mary and Joseph? Or was he trying to say something else - especially about the virginity of Mary. As I'm sure you're aware, the use of the word 'until' doesn't necessarily reflect a change in situation. This can be seen in many cases in the OT.

Luke calls Jesus Mary's firstborn, a boy. Possibly indicating that she had girls as well as boys by Joseph.

"First-born" doesn't indicate more children. In Exodus it says, "Every first-born shall be sanctified unto God." Were only children not sanctified?

In Mark 3 and the other Synoptics, the siblings of Jesus, both brothers and sisters, are always mentioned in connection with Mary.

I've discussed the 'siblings' of Jesus elsewhere - most recently about "James, the brother of Jesus" on my blog.

rusty

[Anoetos]

Tizz,

It may not prove that they did enjoy a normal conjugal relationship after the birth of Jesus, but neither does it prove that they didn't.

It just seems saner, safer, more realistic to assume that they were normal people with a normal marriage, at least to us.

[Apolocaust]

Tizz,

It may not prove that they did enjoy a normal conjugal relationship after the birth of Jesus, but neither does it prove that they didn't.

It just seems saner, safer, more realistic to assume that they were normal people with a normal marriage, at least to us.

Well, Joseph and Mary weren't exactly normal, considering that Mary gave birth to God. And there are people who do have celibate marriages.

[Anoetos]

Well, Joseph and Mary weren't exactly normal, considering that Mary gave birth to God. And there are people who do have celibate marriages.

Point taken, but their "specialness" wasn;t due to anything inherent in them, nor did it rest upon the nature of their marital relations after the birth of Jesus.

[mosabdullah]

That's a pretty catchy title, isn't it?

I've been having a little conversation with a Muslim about some ayas in the Qur'an:

"They say (the Christians): "Allah hath begotten a son!" Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in heaven and on earth! No warrant have ye for this!" (Surah 10:68)

They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. Surah 2:116-117

According to the Muslims these ayas are correcting the Christians and pointing out that God did not have sex with Mary in order to produce Jesus. In other words, Allah believes that this is what the Christians believe.

I told this fellow that Christians do not believe that and never did so the ayas are condemning a Christian belief that never was.

Here is my question: Was there every a time in the history of Christianity when Christians did believe that Jesus was produced by God and Mary through sex? What did the first Christians believe? It seems to me that since the first followers were Jews, that they would have been horrified at such a suggestion.

It sounds like a pretty dumb question to me, but I honestly don't know. To make matters worse, my younger brother thinks that "begotten" in the Bible means sex: "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son....", so I should extend my question to include any "Christians" today who have that misconception.

Thank you.

Just in case someone does come a cross this and read it your Muslim friend and you are both
ignorant of what these verses are saying. Muslims have never said that Christians think God had sex with Mary.

God is far beyond having a son or a partner or a co-equal (trinity, son-ship etc). These verses are refuting the fact that Christians make the statement about Jesus being God and/or Son of God and/or the trinity. The reason I say and or is because or Christian groups cannot even agree on what role God and Jesus play in Christianity.

The Quran is very clear and straightforward about these issues. No beating around the bush and no differences between all groups in Islam.

Next time you make a claim at least research or ask a knowledgeable Muslims. Save you having to look ignorant later when someone proves you wrong.

[Christian2]

Just in case someone does come a cross this and read it your Muslim friend and you are both
ignorant of what these verses are saying. Muslims have never said that Christians think God had sex with Mary.

God is far beyond having a son or a partner or a co-equal (trinity, son-ship etc). These verses are refuting the fact that Christians make the statement about Jesus being God and/or Son of God and/or the trinity. The reason I say and or is because or Christian groups cannot even agree on what role God and Jesus play in Christianity.

The Quran is very clear and straightforward about these issues. No beating around the bush and no differences between all groups in Islam.

Next time you make a claim at least research or ask a knowledgeable Muslims. Save you having to look ignorant later when someone proves you wrong.

I have done the research and I have talked with many Muslims about this issue.

Problem is many Muslims do accuse Christians of believing that Jesus is a result of sex between God and Mary and they get that idea from the Qur'an.

[mosabdullah]

I have done the research and I have talked with many Muslims about this issue.

Problem is many Muslims do accuse Christians of believing that Jesus is a result of sex between God and Mary and they get that idea from the Qur'an.

I guess then they are ignorant Muslims. I doubt they get it from the Quran because had the been reading the Quran they would know otherwise. I mean it is not that difficult for someone that is ignorant to here the statement that Christians make "Jesus is the Son of God" and t hen assume that God had sex with Mary.

It goes both ways. Anyway either way this is definitely not what this verse is implying.

[John Goddard]

I guess then they are ignorant Muslims. I doubt they get it from the Quran because had the been reading the Quran they would know otherwise. I mean it is not that difficult for someone that is ignorant to here the statement that Christians make "Jesus is the Son of God" and t hen assume that God had sex with Mary.

It goes both ways. Anyway either way this is definitely not what this verse is implying.

It is about the Christian notion that a second deity person proceeded out of God which makes for a pantheon and polytheism, a Father God person and a Son God person.

The Quran isn't against the idea that believers are as the children of God. In that sense, the Messiah is THE Son of God as promised to David.

[John Goddard]

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[headheart]

I think this "begotten" subject is a huge mistake in the Qur'an--right up there with Jesus didn't die on the cross.

Yes, I agree.

The reference to 'unique' in your replies, as well as the point mentioned about the problem with the source material...... out of which Mohammed's murdered scribe and those who much later compiled and have assembled whatever was written on 'wood, hay and stubble' into what is regarded as the Holy Q'uran....has many weaknesses in understanding what is written...here is a literal translation of the uniquely inspired text that seems to be under scrutiny...

13
“No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.(i)
14
Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15
so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.(j)
16
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.
17
Because God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's unique Son.

(i) 3:13 Other mss. lack 'who is in heaven'
(j) 3:15 The quotation possibly concludes with this verse instead of with verse 21.

HH.

[JAYMZ]

He's generally thought to have been pretty old by the time he married her, mainly just to help her out.

What would be Gods purpose to have Mary remain a virgin her whole life ?

Sex between a husband and wife is not dirty.