Charles Taze Russell - The Truth!

[IncRus]

Mark 7:18 reiterates verse 15 and verse 19 explains the reason why ANYTHING that enters a man from outside CANNOT defile him before the eyes of God. This reinforces my belief that the JW's view on blood is FALSE.

Jesus specifies the heart. So if someone does something in defiance of a direct command of Jesus' Father, I would assume it indicates a bad heart.

Your assumption is wrong.

What Jesus specifies is something that comes out of the mouth or WITHIN (verse 23) - NOT something that ENTERS the mouth. Read Mark 7:20-23, open your mind and try to understand.

Eaten blood is something that ENTERS a man FROM outside. This does NOT defile a man before God. What comes OUT of a man, that defiles a man:

"From WITHIN, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, DECEIT (lying, misrepresentation, deception, misleading, etc), licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness, all these things come FROM within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21-22).

All these EVIL things come FROM within and defile a man.

You are speculating that Jesus was obedient to Moses' law and would not have considered blood to be food..

Nope! All Moses did was reinforce the decree over blood that YHWH gave Noah and is obligated on all mankind!

The commands that God gave Moses is NOT similar to the commands that God gave Jesus (Heb. 1:1-2).

But Jesus was not talking only of food.

Read his explanation again. He specified food!

Doesn't blood that is eaten ENTER a man FROM outside, goes to the stomach and is then eliminated, as Jesus said in Mark 7:18-19? Are you thus without understanding also?

Jesus said "NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile a man." Whether blood is food or not is immaterial. If it enters a man from outside, it cannot defile him before God.

Is it your opinion that sodomy, illicit sex and fornication are permitted by Jesus?

Don't change the topic. We are talking about eating blood. Concerning EVIL things like illicit sex and fornication, read Jesus' teaching in Mark 7:21-23

This fact was lost on the apostles and this is also lost on JWs and the like who CANNOT understand Jesus.

I can't speak for the apostles but JWs relate to the heart condition that someone demonstrates = Jesus' explanation.

JWs CANNOT undertand what Jesus as well.

And as far as obedience to Moses' law is concerned, Jesus broke the Sabbath, didn't he?

Nope! Though he did break the Pharisees rules.

Again, you are wrong. Read John 5:18. The Jews said he broke the Sabbath. You pretend to know more than the Jews don't you?

What the JWs believe is FALSE. A man is "defiled" when he sins.

And what is sin?

Sin is transgression of the law. And the words of Jesus are commands from God, what to say and what to speak (John 12:49). Thus, obeying Jesus is tantamount to obeying God's commands.

Jesus said NOTHING that enters a man from outside makes him sin.

Jesus did not refer to sin. But defilement.

You really don't understand, right? Only sin can defile a man before God.

Mark 7:20-23 explains what defiles a man before the eyes of God. Therefore, eating blood in the Christian era is NOT a defiance to a direct command of God.

Sure is! Genesis 9:4.

Read Heb. 1:1-2 a try to understand why Jesus' statement carries more weight than Gen. 9:4.

The command not to eat blood with its corresponding penalty was given to the Israelites whom Moses led out of Egypt.

Nope! it was given to Noah.

Whether the command was given to Noah or Mose, it does not mater. Jesus' words carry more weight than God's commands to either Moses or Noah (Heb. 1:1-2).

The command to abstain from blood was given only to the first-century Gentile converts to appease the Jewish converts. Note that the command did not carry any penalty with it.

Valid point. Albeit do you think that the apostles would associate with idolators and fornicators. They included prohibitions against such in their decree.

We are talking specifically about eating blood, aren't we?

Just because JWs, INCs and Jews apply Old Testament scriptures in their lives does not mean they will be saved on judgment day. People who do NOT believe what Jesus says will not be saved (John 3:16, 34). The words that Jesus had spoken will judge them in the last days(John 12:48).

Even obedience to Jesus' words won't save them if the have the wrong heart condition.

Again you are wrong. Anyone who BELIEVES Jesus and OBEYS what he says, does NOT have a bad heart condition. How can one who truly believes Jesus and obeys his words have illicit relations or fornicate when Jesus says these are EVIL things that DEFILE him befoire God (Mark 7:21-23).

The teaching that baptized members are perceived as sinning against the Holy Spirit is AGAINST Jesus' teaching that NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile a man.

Again is Sodomy and Fornication permissable?

Read Mark 7:15-23).

Of course, nonbaptized members are not JWs yet and should not be subject to JW doctrines unless that is a requirement for their baptism.

Many unbaptised JWs are encouraged to witness about YHWH. So baptised or not they are JWs!

Encouragement to witness for YHWH does NOT make anyone a JW.

True Christians are guided by what Christ preached - NOT on what other religions practice.

Agreed.

You agree yet you DON'T believe what Jesus says. What hypocrisy!

Anyone can "abstain" from any food they don't like for one reason or another.

According to Gen 9:4 blood is not allowable. Prior to Gen 9:4 the meat of breathing creatures wasn't consumed only things growing on plants, afterward the meat of breathing creatures was allowed, but eating their blood was directly prohibited.

If you are NOT a follower of Christ, admit it so we can stop communicating about the teachings of Jesus.

But to expel anyone from a religion because of eating blood or blood transfusion is tantamount to overriding Jesus and declaring that Jesus was WRONG in saying that NOTHING that enters a man from outside can DEFILE him before the eyes of God.

Ah! But jesus refers to the heart. If a person does something in direct revolt against the Father's wishes then he defiles his heart - albeit not his body.

You really don't know what you are talking about.

Did the apostles EXPEL from among them those who ate blood? Apostle Paul listed those whom they should expel in 1 Cor. 5:13. Eating blood is NOT among these reasons.

If you have a read of the history of the first few centuries of Christianity, yes they did! In fact they disassociated themselves from people who attended the gladiatorial games and all blood sports!

I'm talking about eating blood.

As I said, prohibiting the eating of anything including blood for whatever reason is NOT against the teachings of Jesus.

Actually, you can eat anything beneficial to you, as long as you exclude its blood in your diet.

You can exclude blood from your diet for any reason other than spiritual. If you exclude blood because you fear that it would defile you before God, that's HERESY and heretics cannot enter heaven.

But declaring that eating blood is SINNING against God or being DEFILED before the eyes of God, is AGAINST the doctrine of Christ recorded in Mark 7:15, 18-23

JWs don't say it is directly a sin against God. Those ignorant of God's instructions to Noah cannot be condemned until they are reproved!

True Christians are concerned ONLY of what Jesus and the apostles preached.

Well, maybe Mark 7:15 and 18 are not self-explanatory after all. But my mistake in saying that what Jesus said is self-explanatory does not make my view contradictory to what Jesus said.

fair enough! Albeit Jesus restricted his explanation to food, but made particular reference to the heart condition.

As I said you are wrong. Read Mark 7:21-23 slowly and understand that Jesus was talking of EVIL that come from WITHIN.

What Jesus said in Mark 7:19-20 is the reason Jesus gave his apostles why eating blood CANNOT defile a man before God. It is what comes out of a man that defiles him - NOT what enters a man.

As we say in the computer world - rubbish in, rubbish out.

I agree. What you learned from false teachers is what you are spewing out in this forum.

The BIG difference between the JW and the apostle is their perception about eating blood. While the apostles did NOT think that eating blood CAN defile a man before God, the JWs think otherwise. Hence, the apostles did NOT impose any penalty for violating their letter while the JW consider eating blood as a SIN against the Holy Spirit and EXPELS any JW member who eats blood.

The Inglesia ni Christos persecutes any follower who disagrees with the teaching of their church and they are severe in their teaching about Fillipinos eating blood stew. At least JWs are more Christian than they in their treatment of their members, to be disfellowshipped is a very long process - the last resort.

I don't really agree with everything the INC teaches.

You are correct about the apostles' command concerning eating blood. But we can do without a lot of Old Testanment laws by following the law of Christ.

Its not a law but a direct pre-requisite of the permission to eat animals given by YHWH to Noah!

Whatever. The law of Christ prevails in this Christian era.

[apostoli]

Hello IncRus,

True Christians are guided by what Christ preached - NOT on what other religions practice.

Agreed.

You agree yet you DON'T believe what Jesus says. What hypocrisy!

Jesus made no mention of blood in his witness, but the apostles under the guidence of the holy Spirit did! Thus it seems it is you who is intent on denying Jesus' spirit...

John 20:21-23 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the [sins] of any, they are retained."

Anyone can "abstain" from any food they don't like for one reason or another.

According to Gen 9:4 blood is not allowable. Prior to Gen 9:4 the meat of breathing creatures wasn't consumed only things growing on plants, afterward the meat of breathing creatures was allowed, but eating their blood was directly prohibited.

If you are NOT a follower of Christ, admit it so we can stop communicating about the teachings of Jesus.

I follow Jesus but it seems you are deaf to him. For instance: you appeal to Mark 7:21-22 and miss the very point Jesus makes about the heart...

The parallel account to Mark 7:21-22 is at Mt 15:18-19 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

In both Matthew and Mark, the context of Jesus' words were a reponse to the Pharisees concerning the apostles not washing their hands before eating. In both accounts the pharisees ask "Why do you not walk your disciples according to the tradition of the elders?" To which Jesus replied "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching [as] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do...[All too] well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."

Jesus then gave a direct example of how the Jews had ignored a direct command of God and replaced it by a man made tradition. see Mark 7:10-12.

Jesus nowhere in his preaching makes reference to blood!

Though in many instances he upheld his Father's direct commandments that the Jews had modified. He didn't have to do such with blood, as the prohibition against eating it was a direct command of his Father to all mankind, that was observed at least by his audience!

There are lots of things Jesus doesn't directly address but he provided guiding principles. The common view concerning eating blood, is that it indicates a disrespect for life. Respect for life, as life is in the blood, is the reason YHWH made his exclusion, making not eating it a pre-requisite, to his allowing flesh to be eaten.

Two of Jesus' guiding principles are...

Luke 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks..."

Mt 6:22-23 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great [is] that darkness!"

The way I see it, as a sign of appreciation and respect for all life the Father has caused, but especially as a sign of respect for Jesus' blood, through which we are redeemed (Eph 1:7; Col 1:14; 1 John 1:7; Mk 14:24; Acts 20:28; Rom 3:25), I won't intentionally eat blood, no matter what certain ethnic traditions might want of me. But that is my heart, as guided by the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

Mark 7:18 reiterates verse 15 and verse 19 explains the reason why ANYTHING that enters a man from outside CANNOT defile him before the eyes of God. This reinforces my belief that the JW's view on blood is FALSE.

Jesus specifies the heart. So if someone does something in defiance of a direct command of Jesus' Father, I would assume it indicates a bad heart.

Your assumption is wrong. What Jesus specifies is something that comes out of the mouth or WITHIN (verse 23) - NOT something that ENTERS the mouth. Read Mark 7:20-23, open your mind and try to understand.

Suggest you reread the text...

Mar 7:19-21 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [thus] purifying all foods? And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Eaten blood is something that ENTERS a man FROM outside. This does NOT defile a man before God. What comes OUT of a man, that defiles a man:

"From WITHIN, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, DECEIT (lying, misrepresentation, deception, misleading, etc), licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness, all these things come FROM within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21-22).

All these EVIL things come FROM within and defile a man.

It is the heart that defiles the individual according to Jesus! And it is out of that heart condition that he does all that is good and all that is bad (cp. Lk 6:45-47).

A.Paul remarks "For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." gal 6:7

The commands that God gave Moses is NOT similar to the commands that God gave Jesus (Heb. 1:1-2).

Heb 1:1-2 doesn't say Jesus replaced his Father's direct commands. Can you show me a single instance? To the contrary. There are several instances where the Jews had replaced a command with one of their traditions and Jesus upheld his Father's original command (eg: Mk 7:9-10). And lets not forget Jesus words at Mt 5:17-18.

Don't change the topic. We are talking about eating blood. Concerning EVIL things like illicit sex and fornication, read Jesus' teaching in Mark 7:21-23

No change of topic. The apostles didn't differentiate saying "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." Acts 15:28.

And as far as obedience to Moses' law is concerned, Jesus broke the Sabbath, didn't he?

Nope! Though he did break the Pharisees rules.

Again, you are wrong. Read John 5:18. The Jews said he broke the Sabbath. You pretend to know more than the Jews don't you?

As I said Jesus broke the Pharisees' rules not Moses'. Pointedly, the priests did God's work on the sabbath! Jesus was doing no less (cp. vs19).

You really don't understand, right? Only sin can defile a man before God.

And how does a man sin? Is it by his actions or according to his heart condition. consider...

Mat 5:28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Even obedience to Jesus' words won't save them if the have the wrong heart condition.

Again you are wrong.

Nope! Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

Anyone who BELIEVES Jesus and OBEYS what he says, does NOT have a bad heart condition. How can one who truly believes Jesus and obeys his words have illicit relations or fornicate when Jesus says these are EVIL things that DEFILE him before God (Mark 7:21-23).

Jesus doesn't say these things defile a man before God, merely that they defile a man, and A.paul suggests that which has been defiled cannot enter the kingdom. I agree a true believer would abstain from all these things, assuming they knew they were prohibited. Thus the apostles edict which included blood amongst the things that were to be abstained.

You can exclude blood from your diet for any reason other than spiritual. If you exclude blood because you fear that it would defile you before God, that's HERESY and heretics cannot enter heaven.

Obviously you missed Jesus repeatedly saying all things come out of the heart. So the decision of whether to do or not do anything is not intellectually decided! JWs simply follow what the apostles commanded, to do otherwise is herecy - especially as Jesus had given them all authority to forgive or bind sin.

Peace

[Super Cow]

True servants of God are those who have the testimony of Jesus. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10). Therefore, God's true mesengers in these last days must show proof that they have the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy by doing exactly what Jesus did as recorded in Luke 4:17-21 and what John the Baptist did as recorded in Mtthew 3:3 and Luke 3:4-5.

You totally missed the point of my question (...and ignored my first three questions as well). What group is doing what you say here, thereby being a witness to me that they are true servants of God and their interpretations should be followed?

Apostle Paul wrote: "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Cor. 2:12-13).

Not sure how that scripture is relevant.

The JWs teach that eating blood DEFILES a man before the eyes of God. Hence, the JW expels any JW member who eats blood. In fact, it is for this reason that JW forbids blood transfusion. Is this JW doctrine concerning blood in conformity with the teachings of Jesus?

Jesus said, "There is NOTHING that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that WHATEVER enters a man from outside CANNOT defile him..." (Mark 7:15, 18).

What Jesus said is self-explanatory and does not need any further interpretation. But the JW teaches otherwise. Why? It is because the JW leadership had NOT received the Spirit which is from God!

I understand you don't like some of the teachings of the JW movement, but that doesn't tell me as a whole why your interpretation of scripture is better.

And regarding blood, the JW's do not say that blood defiles a man. The scripture that the JW's use is just as valid as yours:

Acts 15:29- You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality...

The point is not whether you are being defiled. It is just whether it is against God's commandments. I think you and the JW's are both basing your arguments on a limited scope of criteria and miss the real meaning of blood.

[IncRus]

True servants of God are those who have the testimony of Jesus. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10). Therefore, God's true mesengers in these last days must show proof that they have the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy by doing exactly what Jesus did as recorded in Luke 4:17-21 and what John the Baptist did as recorded in Mtthew 3:3 and Luke 3:4-5.

You totally missed the point of my question (...and ignored my first three questions as well). What group is doing what you say here, thereby being a witness to me that they are true servants of God and their interpretations should be followed?

It's up to you to discover for yourself. There are literally thousands of denominations and professing messengers of God out there, preaching what they believe are the words of God.

The Bible says, "to the law and testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20).

Hence, ask them for their "testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy." Let them show you, like John the Baptist, Jesus and Paul, where in the Bible are they prophesied as messengers of God. Next, test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out of the world" (1 John 4:1). "For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God..." (John 3:34).

Apostle Paul wrote: "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1 Cor. 2:12-13).

Not sure how that scripture is relevant.

This scripture is very relevant in "testing the spirits." If the professing messenger of God "speaks in words which man's wisdom teaches" instead of "comparing spiritual things with spiritual as the Holy Spirit teaches." then you can be sure that what the preacher received is the "spirit of the world" - NOT the "Spirit who is from God."

The JWs teach that eating blood DEFILES a man before the eyes of God. Hence, the JW expels any JW member who eats blood. In fact, it is for this reason that JW forbids blood transfusion. Is this JW doctrine concerning blood in conformity with the teachings of Jesus?

Jesus said, "There is NOTHING that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that WHATEVER enters a man from outside CANNOT defile him..." (Mark 7:15, 18).

What Jesus said is self-explanatory and does not need any further interpretation. But the JW teaches otherwise. Why? It is because the JW leadership had NOT received the Spirit which is from God!

I understand you don't like some of the teachings of the JW movement, but that doesn't tell me as a whole why your interpretation of scripture is better.

And regarding blood, the JW's do not say that blood defiles a man. The scripture that the JW's use is just as valid as yours:

Acts 15:29- You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality...

The point is not whether you are being defiled. It is just whether it is against God's commandments. I think you and the JW's are both basing your arguments on a limited scope of criteria and miss the real meaning of blood.

First, it is not true that JWs do not say that blood defiles a man. Of course, they do! Why would a member be expelled for eating blood unless the JWs teach that eating blood is sin?
Second, the point of eating blood is whether you are defiled before the eyes of God or not. Jesus declared in no uncertain terms that NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile him before the eyes of God. This, by the way, is God's command to Jesus for him to say or to speak (John 12:49).

Hence, the apostles' letter to the Gentile converts to "abstain from blood," among other things, is simply an admonition that, if violated, CANNOT defile them before the eyes of God, in conformity with Jesus' teaching..

Therefore, any religion that declares "eating blood" as a serious transgression of God's law that deserves expulsion, goes AGAINST the doctrine of Christ.

[Super Cow]

It's up to you to discover for yourself. There are literally thousands of denominations and professing messengers of God out there, preaching what they believe are the words of God.

The Bible says, "to the law and testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20).

Hence, ask them for their "testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy." Let them show you, like John the Baptist, Jesus and Paul, where in the Bible are they prophesied as messengers of God. Next, test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out of the world" (1 John 4:1). "For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God..." (John 3:34).

So, basically you are saying that you don't know either. I can accept that. Otherwise you would be certain to help me find the true path to Christ as it is the whole purpose of Christianity to help others.

First, it is not true that JWs do not say that blood defiles a man. Of course, they do! Why would a member be expelled for eating blood unless the JWs teach that eating blood is sin?
Second, the point of eating blood is whether you are defiled before the eyes of God or not. Jesus declared in no uncertain terms that NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile him before the eyes of God. This, by the way, is God's command to Jesus for him to say or to speak (John 12:49).
Hence, the apostles' letter to the Gentile converts to "abstain from blood," among other things, is simply an admonition that, if violated, CANNOT defile them before the eyes of God, in conformity with Jesus' teaching..

Therefore, any religion that declares "eating blood" as a serious transgression of God's law that deserves expulsion, goes AGAINST the doctrine of Christ.

You are incorrect on two accounts. First of all, nobody can be expelled from a JW church. They have a practice called disfellowshipping, which is strictly limited to personal contacts and relationships outside of basic immediate families and possibly necessary business transactions. In other words, this person would be treated like an unbeliever with the exception that they stop making attempts to convert such a person. A disfellowshipped person can always still attend church, obtain and read church literature, and is actually encouraged to do so, as it is one requirement for reinstatement.

What they are restricted from is preaching in the church's name, and other congregation members are instructed not to associate with individuals other than common courtesies in life or "good samaritan" assistance that you might give a stranger.

Secondly, you misunderstand the basis of defilement. The dictionary defines it as:

| to make unclean or impure: as | to corrupt the purity or perfection of | debase <the countryside defiled by billboards> | to violate the chastity of : deflower | to make physically unclean especially with something unpleasant or contaminating <boots defiled with blood> | to violate the sanctity of

When the scripture says "NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile him", it is in context to the old law code of the Jews and the practice of calling some foods unclean. (Pork for instance) It was also a retribution on the Pharisees enforcing traditions instead of biblical principles. This is clear if you read the whole chapter in context.

Jesus came to replace the old law code with a new covenant. Whereas the rules uncleanness of certain foods were no longer necessary to protect the people, the command to abstain from blood was reiterated. The sabbath was another command that was no longer required. Much of this was to allow for the coming inclusion of gentiles into the faith.

Where it becomes a debatable point is whether the rule is expanded to actual blood transfusions and this is where the watchtower society indirectly admits that they are extending this rule based on their own interpretation and logical progression of principles. This could be going too far in the case of blood transfusions, because using your own blood to save another's life could easily be considered to be the highest order of maintaining the sanctity of life, but this is not their viewpoint.

[Super Cow]

In any event, I don't think the blood issue was even a doctrine until Rutherford's time as the leader, in which case it is irrelevant to the question about C T Russell.

[apostoli]

In any event, I don't think the blood issue was even a doctrine until Rutherford's time as the leader, in which case it is irrelevant to the question about C T Russell.

I did some research. As far as blood transfusions are concerned, the policy was adopted under Knor in 1946 (before then blood transfusions weren't common medical practice so not a major issue for them). And it was a conscience matter until 1961. For a while there was a lot of silliness on their teaching on blood, going as far as being applied to pet food, fertilizers and anything that might contain blood. Then in the 1970s they seem to have moderated the extreme views...

Imu, the WT&TS' objection has always been in respect to whole blood. At least since the 1970s they have allowed blood fractions - accepting these or body parts is left upto individual conscience.

In 2000 they spelt this out, and what current blood products are considered conscience matters and what aren't. Apparently that clarification has caused some friction within their church. Some think the society has compromised and demand full abstinence, others think that the society should butt out completely and the sheep just follow the society's guidance, which is "don't force your conscience on others".

Peace

[apostoli]

I don't really agree with everything the INC teaches.

And so we now know where you stand.

Alone!
_______________

In your posts you seem more inclined to the Quran. In respect of eating blood even it condemns you. A pro-Quran cite notes...

"blood is not suitable for use as a food product. The level of digestible proteins such as albumin, globulin and fibrinogen is low; just 8 grams in 100 ml. of blood. The same applies to fats. In addition, blood contains a high level of hemoglobin, a complex protein that is very difficult to digest and is unacceptable to the stomach. When blood clots, the protein fibrinogen gives rise to a plate containing erythrocytes (red blood corpuscles) by turning into fibrin. Fibrin is one of the hardest proteins to digest, thus making blood even more difficult to digest. In conclusion, health experts agree that blood is unfit for human consumption in any form.

After saying: “Unlawful for you are carrion, blood and pork, and what has been consecrated to other than Allah, and animals which have been strangled, and animals which have been killed by a blow, and animals which have fallen to their death, and animals which have been gored, and animals which wild beasts have eaten – except those you are able to slaughter properly – and animals which have been sacrificed on altars, and deciding things by means of divining arrows – that is deviance….” Almighty Allah goes on to say…” But if anyone is forced by hunger, not intending any wrongdoing, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful” (meaning that an exception can be made.) (Surat al-Ma’ida, 3) People of the time were unaware of the wisdom behind it, but were protected by abiding by Allah’s prohibition. Those who believe and trust in Allah and comply with His commandments and prohibitions will enjoy auspicious lives in terms of the Hereafter and also live under Allah’s protection and infinite mercy."
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/E..._IN_THE_QUR_AN

[apostoli]

I don't really agree with everything the INC teaches.

And so, we now know where you stand.

Alone!
_______________

In your posts you seem more inclined to the Quran. In respect of eating blood even it condemns those who habitully eat blood. A pro-Quran site notes...

"blood is not suitable for use as a food product. The level of digestible proteins such as albumin, globulin and fibrinogen is low; just 8 grams in 100 ml. of blood. The same applies to fats. In addition, blood contains a high level of hemoglobin, a complex protein that is very difficult to digest and is unacceptable to the stomach. When blood clots, the protein fibrinogen gives rise to a plate containing erythrocytes (red blood corpuscles) by turning into fibrin. Fibrin is one of the hardest proteins to digest, thus making blood even more difficult to digest. In conclusion, health experts agree that blood is unfit for human consumption in any form.

After saying: “Unlawful for you are carrion, blood and pork, and what has been consecrated to other than Allah, and animals which have been strangled, and animals which have been killed by a blow, and animals which have fallen to their death, and animals which have been gored, and animals which wild beasts have eaten – except those you are able to slaughter properly – and animals which have been sacrificed on altars, and deciding things by means of divining arrows – that is deviance….” Almighty Allah goes on to say…” But if anyone is forced by hunger, not intending any wrongdoing, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful” (meaning that an exception can be made.) (Surat al-Ma’ida, 3) People of the time were unaware of the wisdom behind it, but were protected by abiding by Allah’s prohibition. Those who believe and trust in Allah and comply with His commandments and prohibitions will enjoy auspicious lives in terms of the Hereafter and also live under Allah’s protection and infinite mercy."
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/E..._IN_THE_QUR_AN

Peace

[IncRus]

First, it is not true that JWs do not say that blood defiles a man. Of course, they do! Why would a member be expelled for eating blood unless the JWs teach that eating blood is sin?

Second, the point of eating blood is whether you are defiled before the eyes of God or not. Jesus declared in no uncertain terms that NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile him before the eyes of God. This, by the way, is God's command to Jesus for him to say or to speak (John 12:49).
Hence, the apostles' letter to the Gentile converts to "abstain from blood," among other things, is simply an admonition that, if violated, CANNOT defile them before the eyes of God, in conformity with Jesus' teaching..

Therefore, any religion that declares "eating blood" as a serious transgression of God's law that deserves expulsion, goes AGAINST the doctrine of Christ.

You are incorrect on two accounts. First of all, nobody can be expelled from a JW church. They have a practice called disfellowshipping, which is strictly limited to personal contacts and relationships outside of basic immediate families and possibly necessary business transactions. In other words, this person would be treated like an unbeliever with the exception that they stop making attempts to convert such a person. A disfellowshipped person can always still attend church, obtain and read church literature, and is actually encouraged to do so, as it is one requirement for reinstatement.

What they are restricted from is preaching in the church's name, and other congregation members are instructed not to associate with individuals other than common courtesies in life or "good samaritan" assistance that you might give a stranger.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, JW members are "disfellowshiped" for a variety of reasons, among these are: murder, eating blood, committing adultery, sexual immorality and fornication, the conclusion being that one is "disfellowshiped" for committing sin. Since eating blood is among the reasons for having a JW member "disfellowshiped," then it is safe to assume that JWs "disfellowship" a member who commits sin by eating blood.

Therefore, the JW doctrine to "disfellowship" a member who eats blood is AGAINST Jesus' doctrine that "NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile a man."

Secondly, you misunderstand the basis of defilement. The dictionary defines it as:

| to make unclean or impure: as | to corrupt the purity or perfection of | debase <the countryside defiled by billboards> | to violate the chastity of : deflower | to make physically unclean especially with something unpleasant or contaminating <boots defiled with blood> | to violate the sanctity of

Tell me supercow, how can any man be "made unclean or impure" before the eyes of God? How can one's "sanctity be violated" before the eyes of God? As far as the Bible is concerned, only SIN, can make one "unclean or impure" before the eyes of God. Therefore, when Jesus said that "NOTHING that enters a man can defile him before the eyes of God," he meant that NOTHING a man eats can make him unclean or impure before the eyes of God.

When the scripture says "NOTHING that enters a man from outside can defile him", it is in context to the old law code of the Jews and the practice of calling some foods unclean. (Pork for instance) It was also a retribution on the Pharisees enforcing traditions instead of biblical principles. This is clear if you read the whole chapter in context.

Context cannot chage what Jesus was actually saying. No man knows what was in Jesus' mind except by what he actually said, as written in the Bible. And no man has been given the authority to speak for Jesus nor assume that Jesus said something that he had BOT said.

Jesus came to replace the old law code with a new covenant. Whereas the rules uncleanness of certain foods were no longer necessary to protect the people, the command to abstain from blood was reiterated. The sabbath was another command that was no longer required. Much of this was to allow for the coming inclusion of gentiles into the faith.

Jesus NEVER reiterated the command to abstain from eating blood. Instead, Jesus said that NOTHING that enters from outside (and that includes eating blood) can defole a man before the eyes of God.

Where it becomes a debatable point is whether the rule is expanded to actual blood transfusions and this is where the watchtower society indirectly admits that they are extending this rule based on their own interpretation and logical progression of principles. This could be going too far in the case of blood transfusions, because using your own blood to save another's life could easily be considered to be the highest order of maintaining the sanctity of life, but this is not their viewpoint.

This proves that the JWs use man's wisdom in the teaching of God's word instead of comparing spiritual things with spiritual as the HolySpirit teaches (1 Cor. 2:13).