Assisted Suicide.

[Tassman]

You don't own yourself.

Next.

Nobody owns anybody, including invisible mythical entities. But we are responsible to ourselves and our families to order our lives rationally and sensibility and this pertains to our death wherever possible.

[Paprika]

Nobody owns anybody, including invisible mythical entities.

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

[Leonhard]

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

Amen.

[Christianbookworm]

All true things.

If you want to be an unaware vegetable laying in your filth (and you will be in that place) then please, feel free to make that your choice. But do not make your choice the law and expect others to live such undignified existence.


Actually, it's very straight forward. You make your choices and let others make theirs, and we live happily ever after.

But, if you're unaware of being in that state, what's the problem? The next thing you will be aware of is not being in that state whether you recover or not. Of course you presumably don't believe in the afterlife, but if you are unaware of anything, how is that different than death in your view? In the Christian view, you either wake up here or wake up in heaven after a long nap.

[Juvenal]

The only time you can make a reasonable case is hospice, when the person is obviously suffering the last few days. However any good hospice provides enough medication to keep the person sedated and comfortable. Even to the point of near comatose. As long as their body breathes on its own enough can be provided to remove the pain. I don't see why Euthanasia should be necessary. I can see the reason for a living will. Just have a clause that says dope me up and keep me happy.

I'm remembering a private conversation I had with Deb/Crow, a nurse working with the terminally ill, including hospice care. I don't want to speak for her, but my takeaway was that morphine in the clinical doses used by hospice workers shortens life, and as such can be equivalent to euthanasia.

[Juvenal]

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

Amen.

On the one hand, even a blind squirrel ...

On the other, even after we ignore the fact that it doesn't imply those who say "There is no God" are fools, that's hideously out of context, written in support of a nation regularly commanded to "assist" in the deaths of their adversaries. At best, it's foolishness by association and as such, an attack that's effortlessly simple to turn back on the Christian adherent ...

Jim Jones said, "There is a God."

[Juvenal]

Isn't this a Christian forum?

No. It's a Christian-run forum. Aside from some fairly weak bans on blasphemy, the opinions of Christians are given no official deference or priority.

[Paprika]

On the other, even after we ignore the fact that it doesn't imply those who say "There is no God" are fools

And when did I say it did?

that's hideously out of context

Not at all. It's a perfect description of Tassman.

At best, it's foolishness by association and as such, an attack that's effortlessly simple to turn back on the Christian adherent ...

Jim Jones said, "There is a God."

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

[Paprika]

No. It's a Christian-run forum. Aside from some fairly weak bans on blasphemy, the opinions of Christians are given no official deference or priority.

The point stands that one should expect to meet Christian views here and that they are founded on a premise that the Enlightenment "I am the captain of my soul" spiel is antithetical to.

[Darth Executor]

"I am the captain of my soul"

[Juvenal]

And when did I say it did?

There's little reason to quote that verse other than to use it to call those who don't believe in God "fools." Feel free to elaborate.

Not at all. It's a perfect description of Tassman.

In context:

For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

Sounds more like a perfect description of Jim Jones to me.

Are you drunk-posting?

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Something less than one, in my case, but a whole number, anyway.

[Paprika]

There's little reason to quote that verse other than to use it to call those who don't believe in God "fools."

Your imagination being limited, I suppose I have to remind you that one could quote it as a descriptor instead of attempting to use it as a logical argument.

In context:

For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

Sounds more like a perfect description of Jim Jones to me.

Sounds like a great description of Tassman, which is all that matters here.

Are you drunk-posting?

Nah. Your 'counter' - it was so pathetic I'm not sure it counts as one - was truly hilarious.

an attack that's effortlessly simple to turn back on the Christian adherent

Jim Jones said, "There is a God."

Something less than one, in my case, but a whole number, anyway.

I leave you to that folly.

[Juvenal]

Your imagination being limited, I suppose I have to remind you that one could quote it as a descriptor instead of attempting to use it as a logical argument.

I enjoy the literary aspects of your sacred texts. Treating its statements as logical propositions is something I'll leave to the theists.

Sounds like a great description of Tassman, which is all that matters here.

He's corrupt, and has committed abominable deeds? If you're drunk-posting, I'll let that slide. Otherwise, well, there's a button for that, too.

Nah. Your 'counter' - it was so pathetic I'm not sure it counts as one - was truly hilarious.


I leave you to that folly.

Let me suggest anyone calling the Jonestown massacre by suicide "hilarious" is not the person I'd turn to to help me escape my folly. There are any number of other examples I could have used of fools espousing belief in God, many of whom are still accepted as fellow adherents by most Christians, but this is a thread on "Assisted suicide," and there are few examples more relevant. Masada, maybe, but I can't think of any others that compare.

[myth]

I've seen so many people who were in complete and utter misery, I have a hard time believing that a loving God would insist they continue to suffer. I understand the scriptural argument, but I don't see it as very clear-cut. I'm not ready to disregard the argument, I'm just saying I sit 'on the fence' so to speak.

I have many practical reservations about legalizing assisted suicide. However, as someone who frequently gets to clean up the mess left behind after a suicide...as someone who has to talk to the family members who found the body (and its almost always family members that discover them)...I wish there was a way someone contemplating suicide could go out with dignity and avoid the associated trauma when the family finds the aftermath. It'd also be nice if a part of that process involved leaving a letter to the family (rather rare). It's extremely hard for the family when they didn't see it coming and have no idea why.

I interrupted a suicide in progress once. I will say that, strangely, I didn't feel happy to have saved the person. I felt like a piece of crap for extending their misery. The only solace I took was that, at least the person had one more opportunity to be Saved (in a bigger way).

[Paprika]

He's corrupt, and has committed abominable deeds? If you're drunk-posting, I'll let that slide. Otherwise, well, there's a button for that, too.

Do as you wish.

Let me suggest anyone calling the Jonestown massacre by suicide "hilarious" is not the person I'd turn to to help me escape my folly.

Stop twisting; it was your use of the massacre that was "hilarious" and "pathetic".