How Many Eternities Are There in Scripture?

[.Mr.White.Socks]

The phrase "ages of ages" is a Greek transliteration of a Hebraism expressing the superlative. Please note the following word constructions from both Old and New Testaments.

Hebrew Expressions (Singular followed by Singular or Plural):

1. "Vanity of Vanities" (Ecclesiastes 1:2) i.e., great vanity.

2. “Servant of Servants” (Genesis 9:25) i.e., a supreme servant.

3. “Sabbath of Sabbath” (Exodus 16:23, etc.) important Sabbath.

4. “Holiness of Holiness” (Ezekiel 48:12) i.e., extreme holiness.

5. “Song of Songs” (Song of Songs 1:1) i.e., an extraordinary song.

6. “Completeness of Completeness” (Isaiah 34:10, see original Hebrew)

7. “Heaven of Heavens” (1 Kings 8:27) i.e., the highest heaven.

8. “Holy of Holies” (Exodus 26:33) i.e., the holiest of all.

Hebrew Expressions (Plural followed by Plural):

1. “Heavens of Heavens” (Deuteronomy 10:14) the highest heavens.

2. “Lords of Lords” (Psalm 136:3) i.e., the supreme Lords

Geek Expressions (Singular followed by Singular)

1. Age of the age (aiona tou aionos): Hebrews 1:8

Greek Expressions (Singular followed by Plural):

1. “King of Kings” (Revelation 17:14) i.e., the supreme king.

2. “Hebrew of Hebrews” (Philippians 3:5 [However, if two Hebrews, say Paul and Barnabas, were under consideration the term could have been “Hebrews of Hebrews”]

3. Age of the ages (aionos ton aionon): Ephesians 3:21,

Greek Expressions (Plural followed by Plural):

1. “Holies of Holies” (Hebrews 9:4, 12, 25) the holiest of holy areas.

2. “Ages of Ages” (aionas ton aionon) (Revelation 14:11; 20:10)

The above list shows that constructions using the word aion and its cognates refer to the superlative. The expression “ages of ages” in Revelation refers to the most important or grandest ages of time. The stress of this Greek transliterated Hebraism is qualitative, not quantitative. Given the fact that both "aionas" and "aionon" are in their plural, if one wanted to translate the Greek word "aion" as "ever," AND stay true to the Greek forms of speech, they should have rendered it as "for evers and evers” or “eternities of eternities”. This is illogical, because there is only one eternity, which is outside of created temporal time and space. Eternity is timelessness, not a vast amount of time. The term for endless rolling successive ages of time is “ateleutetos”, which is nowhere found in Scripture. Greek words that actually denote "eternal" are: akataluton “imperishable", aphtharto "immortal", amarantos "unfading", athanasian "indissoluble", anui telos "without end", anolethron "indestructible", adioleipton "never ceasing", ateleuteton "endless", pantote "forever", and eis tou dienekes "forever". These kinds of qualifying words are used to describe rewards and blessedness for believers, which last beyond the aions. However, Scripture never uses words that denote endless duration to describe punishment for the wicked.

Maverick

[.Mr.White.Socks]

Just realized I made a mistake. Psalm 163:3 should read Lord of Lords and does not belong in the (pleural followed by pleural) section.

Maverick

[John from Ebla]

Just realized I made a mistake. Psalm 163:3 should read Lord of Lords and does not belong in the (pleural followed by pleural) section.

Maverick

Correct. l was going to point that out to you- and it's Psalm 136:3 ( it must have been a transposition error The Lord of Lords is Jesus.

Kind regards
John From Ebla

[Zxcv Bnm]

What about Aionios (Mat 25:46), usually translated as eternal, or everlasting.

[commonman]

Geek Expressions (Singular followed by Singular)

Perhaps another typo?

[Provoker]

The phrase "ages of ages" is a Greek transliteration of a Hebraism expressing the superlative. Please note the following word constructions from both Old and New Testaments.

Hebrew Expressions (Singular followed by Singular or Plural):

1. "Vanity of Vanities" (Ecclesiastes 1:2) i.e., great vanity.

2. “Servant of Servants” (Genesis 9:25) i.e., a supreme servant.

3. “Sabbath of Sabbath” (Exodus 16:23, etc.) important Sabbath.

4. “Holiness of Holiness” (Ezekiel 48:12) i.e., extreme holiness.

5. “Song of Songs” (Song of Songs 1:1) i.e., an extraordinary song.

6. “Completeness of Completeness” (Isaiah 34:10, see original Hebrew)

7. “Heaven of Heavens” (1 Kings 8:27) i.e., the highest heaven.

8. “Holy of Holies” (Exodus 26:33) i.e., the holiest of all.

Hebrew Expressions (Plural followed by Plural):

1. “Heavens of Heavens” (Deuteronomy 10:14) the highest heavens.

2. “Lords of Lords” (Psalm 136:3) i.e., the supreme Lords

Geek Expressions (Singular followed by Singular)

1. Age of the age (aiona tou aionos): Hebrews 1:8

Greek Expressions (Singular followed by Plural):

1. “King of Kings” (Revelation 17:14) i.e., the supreme king.

2. “Hebrew of Hebrews” (Philippians 3:5 [However, if two Hebrews, say Paul and Barnabas, were under consideration the term could have been “Hebrews of Hebrews”]

3. Age of the ages (aionos ton aionon): Ephesians 3:21,

Greek Expressions (Plural followed by Plural):

1. “Holies of Holies” (Hebrews 9:4, 12, 25) the holiest of holy areas.

2. “Ages of Ages” (aionas ton aionon) (Revelation 14:11; 20:10)

The above list shows that constructions using the word aion and its cognates refer to the superlative. The expression “ages of ages” in Revelation refers to the most important or grandest ages of time. The stress of this Greek transliterated Hebraism is qualitative, not quantitative. Given the fact that both "aionas" and "aionon" are in their plural, if one wanted to translate the Greek word "aion" as "ever," AND stay true to the Greek forms of speech, they should have rendered it as "for evers and evers” or “eternities of eternities”. This is illogical, because there is only one eternity, which is outside of created temporal time and space. Eternity is timelessness, not a vast amount of time. The term for endless rolling successive ages of time is “ateleutetos”, which is nowhere found in Scripture. Greek words that actually denote "eternal" are: akataluton “imperishable", aphtharto "immortal", amarantos "unfading", athanasian "indissoluble", anui telos "without end", anolethron "indestructible", adioleipton "never ceasing", ateleuteton "endless", pantote "forever", and eis tou dienekes "forever". These kinds of qualifying words are used to describe rewards and blessedness for believers, which last beyond the aions. However, Scripture never uses words that denote endless duration to describe punishment for the wicked.

Maverick

Hello Mr. White socks:
I think we may be barking up the wrong tree when we consider the nuances of the Greek too strictly.
First century "Koine" Greek was completely out of usage before the end of the 4th century, having been replaced by a completely different language called Byzantine. Erasmus published the first Greek new testament(the textus receptus), in Byzantine text, early in the 16th century.
Most bible scholars assume that Erasmus simply assembled copies of original Greek texts, but Erasmus was a translator, and he translated the new testament into Latin around the same time that he translated it into Byzantine. Erasmus' textus receptus is actually refered to as "the Byzantine text".
In any case, what it boils down to is that texts which were written 1500 years earlier, in a dialect which had been dead for 1000 years, were translated by a dutchman, into the Byzantine Greek dialect in the early 16th century.
Less than 100 years later, Erasmus' Byzantine translation, and his Latin translation, were used to translate the new testament into English for the KJV.
Not being a Greek scholar myself, I can only assume that the Greek dialect taught in bible schools is Byzantine, and I'm not sure what interpretation advantage it gives one, to learn the language of Erasmus' doctrinally influenced, educated guesses, regarding what the original authors were trying to say.
What do you think?

[.Mr.White.Socks]

Perhaps another typo?

Darby Bible: but as to the Son, Thy throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and a sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


Young's Literal: and unto the Son: 'Thy throne, O God, 'is' to the age of the age; a scepter of righteousness 'is' the scepter of thy reign;

[.Mr.White.Socks]

What about Aionios (Mat 25:46), usually translated as eternal, or everlasting.

Most people see the same word aionios used to modify both reward and punishment and assume it is meant to emphasize the similar duration of both by comparison. Rather than comparison, I view the purpose of the passage to express a contrast between the quality of life experienced in the age to come by those who rule and reign with Christ and those who undergo “kolasis” correction. I do not believe this is the eternal state, but a particular age among the eschatological ages of ages. If the emphasis was on the everlastingness of an indestructible life that endures even beyond the created ages of time, then I would look for an unmistakable qualifying word to denote endlessness attached to life, such as in Hebrews 7:16, where it uses the term “zois akataluton”.

Besides, if aionios means eternal, then how does one explain the term “pro chronos aionios”? (II Tim. 1:9 and Titus 1:2).

Maverick

[.Mr.White.Socks]

I think we may be barking up the wrong tree when we consider the nuances of the Greek too strictly. What do you think?

Provoker (and others reading),

I think that even with sloppy translations and biased interpretations, one may still see through the veil of errors to catch a glimps of the essential meaning of Scripture. I use the technique of teasing out the sense of a word or phrase by observing Scriptural patterns and principals. From our previous discussion on covenant, you are already familar with what I call the "forever-until" principal. However, for the benefit of others reading this thread topic for the first time, please permit me to demonstrate.

Please note how the words everlasting, perpetual and forever are used in the following Scritpures:

Habakkuk says the mountains that were "everlasting", until they "were shattered" Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex. 40:15), until it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever", until the tenth generation (Deut.23.3)

The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16), until Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8), until in the New Covenant, the first was "done away" (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

Jonah went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars against him forever, until God brought up his life from corruption on the third day. (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12), until the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9), until the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53).

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be "perpetual", until Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for sins, and we now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).

In chapter 15, Philemon is instructed to receive Onesimus "forever" (aionios),until the end of his earthly life/aion.

If we indeed may be considering the nuances of Greek too strictly in our search for meaning, then I think that is even more of a reason to look for discernible patterns. As demonstrated above, it appears to me that just because a word is translated as forever, does not mean it is eternal in the strict sense of endlessness, but only lasts as long as necessary to accomplish God's intended purpose.

Maverick