Do Christians, Jews, and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[JardinPrayer]

This thread was inspired by an ongoing conversation I've had offline with one of T-Web's admins. I'm intensely interested in the viewpoints of everyone, but especially the scholars among us.

Jews and Christians point to the same deity when they use the term God: The God that walked in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day with Adam. The God that promised Abraham he would be the father of many nations. The God that gave us the prophets of the Old Testament. In the New Testament, God seems to take on a very different "personality" - less wrathful (saving that up for the last day) and more merciful (offering a sacrifice for our salvation and a new covenant to replace the old).

Here's the dangerous step: When Muslims use the term God, they are also pointing to that same deity. They acknowledge the same prophets, they revere Abraham, they refer to Jews and Christians as "The People of the Book," meaning the Bible, a document they acknowledge but do not follow. All three faiths are referred to in theological and historical texts as "The Religions of the One God of Abraham."

Question: because the structure of our spiritual lives is different, and our understanding of who God is and what He wants from us, does this mean we are worshipping different Gods?

[yoki]

Today @ 05:52 PM post located here
JardinPrayer:

This thread was inspired by an ongoing conversation I've had offline with one of T-Web's admins. I'm intensely interested in the viewpoints of everyone, but especially the scholars among us.

Jews and Christians point to the same deity when they use the term God: The God that walked in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day with Adam. The God that promised Abraham he would be the father of many nations. The God that gave us the prophets of the Old Testament. In the New Testament, God seems to take on a very different "personality" - less wrathful (saving that up for the last day) and more merciful (offering a sacrifice for our salvation and a new covenant to replace the old).

Here's the dangerous step: When Muslims use the term God, they are also pointing to that same deity. They acknowledge the same prophets, they revere Abraham, they refer to Jews and Christians as "The People of the Book," meaning the Bible, a document they acknowledge but do not follow. All three faiths are referred to in theological and historical texts as "The Religions of the One God of Abraham."

Question: because the structure of our spiritual lives is different, and our understanding of who God is and what He wants from us, does this mean we are worshipping different Gods?

What a wonderful question. Shakespeare had the answer in the form of a rhetorical question,* but this does not stop those fundamentally-minded to condemn anything that does not meet the standards of their strict theological framework -- whether Christian, Muslim or Jew.

*Would a rose smell sweeter by any other name?

[Thomas2003]

Dear Jardinprayer,

I don't believe there is any difference between the Old Testament and the New, the same Triune God is the Creator God of history. He creates and predestinates history to work out His creative purposes.

Thus, I would answer your question in the affirmative. Jesus said that the attempts of the Jews to make the law their mediator before God was after Satan, not God. (John 8:44) While they may try to obtain salvation in His name by their own works - it is unacceptable to God and the very foundation of sin. (Genesis 3:5)

Further, Allah is claimed to be the God of Abraham, which Islam believes is the lord of all religions and is a Jinn. They are knowingly not serving the Creator God of Scripture.

There is only one religion that delivers life and the Promise of God, it is the Truth:

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Cordially,

Thomas

[JardinPrayer]

Yesterday @ 11:53 PM post located here
Thomas2003:

Thus, I would answer your question in the affirmative.

Are you, in fact, answering my question in the affirmative? The rest of your post seems to indicate otherwise. Would you please clarify?

Peace,
Jardin

[Gavin]

I say no, Christians, Jews, Muslims do not all worship the same God. Although I believe that both the Old and New Testament depict the same God, modern Jews who do not embrace Jesus as messiah and saviour are not really worshipping YHWH. Read the claims of Jesus in John. He made it clear to the pharisees that their knowledge of God was not efficacious. And Muslims certainly do not worship this God, as Islam is a totally different religion and Allah depicted very differently than the Christian God of the Bible.

I hope I do not offend any Jews here: I will give a fuller justification upon request for my statement that outside Jesus true knowledge of YHWH is impossible.

[JardinPrayer]

Gavin,
That's certainly a Christian perspective, and one I understand well. I'm trying to explore that very notion...that all three faiths beleive they have the right and only perception of God, yet they all point to the same entity. That's the crux of what I'm trying to bring out here.

As a Christian, I agree with your statements. As a religious tolerance advocate, I think it's more complex.

Peace,
Jardin

[simchat_torah]

"...modern Jews who do not embrace Jesus as messiah and saviour are not really worshipping YHWH."

Oh really? Then what G-d do they worship? How about the Jews during the lifetime of the messiah?

"I will give a fuller justification upon request for my statement that outside Jesus true knowledge of YHWH is impossible."

I request to hear this.

-Yafet.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Jardin you are so kind to keep my name out of this unless I chose to participate, thank you. I am the admin in question and I would emphatically say, absolutely not. I had this discussion a time back and will try to hunt down anything I may have saved from that discussion and post it here. I would also say that tolerance is not acceptance as all things as equally true or valid. You do not "tolerate" something you believe is right, tolerance presupposes that a person thinks the other is wrong.

[Hitch]

Jews and Christians point to the same deity when they use the term God: The God that walked in the Garden of Eden in the cool of the day with Adam. The God that promised Abraham he would be the father of many nations

Not even close;


I Jn 2:22-24
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the
(KJV)


Oh really? Then what G-d do they worship? How about the Jews during the lifetime of the messiah?

"I will give a fuller justification upon request for my statement that outside Jesus true knowledge of YHWH is impossible."

I request to hear this.


John 5:45-47
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
(KJV)



And on the positive side:


John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
(KJV)


You asked..

Take care

Hitch

[spl_cadet]

They worship the same God, but Jews and Muslims don't have the full understanding and realization of the nature of God that we do. We worship in fullness, they worship in part.

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

I think the best answer is that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God in part; it is undeniable that there is some overlap in their concepts and historical accounts of the relationship between God and humanity. Yet, Muslims have added material from other sources and reject the deity of Christ, and many Jews also fail to recognize Jesus as the Messiah. To Christians, Jesus is the pivotal and defining point of God's identity which, if unrecognized, leaves one's picture of who God is substantially incomplete.

[Hitch]

In part? No the Apostle says in the plainest of terms:

II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
(KJV)


There is no 'part' here anymore than thee is a 'part' in pregnacy. You is or you aint an dat's all.


Hitch

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

Today @ 12:28 PM post located here
Hitch:

In part? No the Apostle says in the plainest of terms:

II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
(KJV)


There is no 'part' here anymore than thee is a 'part' in pregnacy. You is or you aint an dat's all.


Hitch

Is "having God" the same as worshipping him? Do some worship God without "having" him? I suppose it depends on how one defines "worship;" if the object of worship between these religions is partially the same, then the practitioners might be said to worship the same God in part. Whether they all "have" God, and to what discernable extent, perhaps becomes another question---which might be answered differently depending upon one's theology.

Is "having" God the same as being "saved," as in those who "have" God are saved while those who don't, aren't? Or is "having" God in this passage a matter of having God in what one preaches and teaches? Is the passage about worship or soteriology really? Suppose a Christian convert were to sin and "partake of his evil deeds?" Would that mean the erring Christian's salvation would be forfeit? Would it invalidate his worship somehow? I'd say this passage warns against religious pluralism, but does it really say anything directly about worship or salvation? It might, but I'm not sure that it does.

To be a deceiver and an antichrist, to deny outright the doctrine of Christ, is what John is speaking against, but, does he mean to say that everyone who mistakingly holds to any religious perspective outside Christianity is "an antichrist" in the full sense of the word?

[Hitch]

To be a deceiver and an antichrist, to deny outright the doctrine of Christ, is what John is speaking against, but, does he mean to say that everyone who mistakingly holds to any religious perspective outside Christianity is "an antichrist" in the full sense of the word?

That is exactly what John means. John is defining antichrist.

Say; I know this guy who claims he's not really sure what 'is' means. ya all should get together for coffee.


But then can we really define 'coffee'?

Is it still coffee if you put cream in it? What if its percolated? Can coffee come from Brazil and Africa? What if its cold? If I define tea as coffee does that make me a coffee drinker? What about coaco? Is 'having' coffee the same a s drinking coffee?

Is a cow a dog? Some folks calls cows doggies...

H

[Dee Dee Warren]

Okay I am going to begin to prove my case that Jews do not believe in the same God as Christians in any meaningful way.

The Apostle John hammers home this very hard teaching more than any other of the writers (Paul coming in a close second). So we will take an excursion through the writings of John.

John 3:18-21 – He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

What does these verses tell us?? First of all anyone who does not believe in Christ is condemned. And why are they condemned?? Because they loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. But he who does the truth comes to light that his deeds may be seen to have been done in God.

Wow, these verses alone are enough. Someone who rejects Christ loves darkness. How can someone who loves darkness be said to believe in the same God (belief entails love)? In 2 Corinthians 6:14 Paul asks, ” And what communion has light with darkness?” What indeed.

This ties in to what John said in his epistles:

1 John 1:5-7 – This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

John clearly says that if anyone claims that they have fellowship with the Father (i.e. they claim that they believe in the Father) and walk in darkness (i.e. flee from the light of Christ) they lie. Could it be any plainer??

John 3 (quoted above) also says that those who are not condemned, who walk in light, does the truth. Who is truth? Christ is (John 14:6). You cannot deny Christ and have the spiritual truth at all!!!

Okay moving on in John, though what I have already said is enough to prove my point. (and I am not attempting to hit every place where John proves this point, just some major ones)

John 5:23 – He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Again a very clear indication that one cannot be said to “believe” in the same God in any meaningful way while denying the Son. Are you going to claim that they really believe, but it is a dishonoring belief?? Is that then a real belief at all?? Or is it the kind of “belief” that even the demons have (James 2:19) – which is a “dead” belief, and James’ whole point is that is no belief at all)??

They cannot even be said to believe in God in just the portion revealed in the Old Testament. Jesus rules even that out as a possibility:

John 5:38-47 – But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Christ here claims that the whole Old Testament is about Him!!! If you deny Him, you deny the Old Testament Scriptures, thus removing any basis for any claim that they believe in the same God…..for they don’t even believe in the Scriptures that would give them any such knowledge.

John 15:18-25 – “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

Can it be any clearer?? The denial of Christ is hatred of the Father and His provision for sin.

And the nail in the coffin is:

1 John 2:23 – Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.



My intent is not to be insulting to anyone, but I cannot shirk (pun intended) or hide from my responsibility to declare the whole counsel of God, including the hard stuff.