Originally posted by Darth Executor
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Stoning to death in the OT and the situation now after the NT.
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“I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt's not irrelevant, or moot, in my (or DE's) eyes, because His lack of authority is one side of the trap. I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, because discussion isn't getting us anywhere.
My point is, Jesus did not condone the stoning of the woman. If the reason He doesn't is because of the trap, then you can make the case that I'm wrong...but I submit, with authority, Jesus would have done the exact same thing, found a way to forgive the woman and not condemn her to death. If you disagree then we do indeed need to agree to disagree. So, yes or no, do you think Jesus does something different if He had authority to do so?Last edited by Littlejoe; 05-13-2015, 07:57 AM."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostJust because the point of the story isn't about his authority does not mean it's moot.
Of course it matters. Jesus could not order an execution without defying the Romans. That's why they brought an adulterous woman to him, to get him to either anger the Romans by having her executed or violate Mosaic law. This way no matter what Jesus did He'd lose face with somebody."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostIt's relevant to the trap. I give you that. If we grant Jesus (the man) Governor of Judea for the day authority. Do you believe He makes a different decision?
My point is, Jesus did not condone the stoning of the woman. If the reason He doesn't is because of the trap, then you can make the case that I'm wrong...but I submit, with authority, Jesus would have done the exact same thing, found a way to forgive the woman and not condemn her to death. If you disagree then we do indeed need to agree to disagree. So, yes or no, do you think Jesus does something different if He had authority to do so?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by LittlejoeMy point is, Jesus did not condone the stoning of the woman. If the reason He doesn't is because of the trap, then you can make the case that I'm wrong...but I submit, with authority, Jesus would have done the exact same thing, found a way to forgive the woman and not condemn her to death. If you disagree then we do indeed need to agree to disagree. So, yes or no, do you think Jesus does something different if He had authority to do so?
With two witnesses, Moses said to kill her and Caesar said not to kill her. With no witnesses, neither one said to kill her.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostWith two witnesses, Moses said to kill her and Caesar said not to kill her. With no witnesses, neither one said to kill her.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostYes, you have answered with the facts of the story and thereby continued to avoid the question. Yes or no, IF Jesus has all the authority, does he do something different?"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostThat looks wrong to me. It seems to say that Jesus' opponents simply picked a woman, whether they knew or not about her sins."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostYes. Or rather, probably. It's unclear whether she actually did commit adultery or not."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by TruthseekerThat looks wrong to me. It seems to say that Jesus' opponents simply picked a woman, whether they knew or not about her sins.
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Are Christians who support it going to be willing to practically go through with it? The news has come out that Jim Bob Duggar supported capital punishment for incest when he ran for office some years ago. When it comes to his own son, though, he is siding with forgiveness instead."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Darth Ovious View PostAny thoughts on this video on the issue? They seem to argue that certain things like stoning were part of ceremonial law that no longer applies to us under the new covenant.
Rather, since the wise and good God saw fit to institute those punishments for a certain times and place the question is why shouldn't we follow likewise?
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