Originally posted by Sparko
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World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude certain religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism. If you are not sure, ask a moderator.
This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.
And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
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Being a religion of peace
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I have not read the Bible...Though I did go through some of the Torah (Hebrew Transliteration with English translation) Some of the words used in the Torah are also used in the Quran because Arabic and Hebrew are sister languages.....For the NT....I have looked at a few passages here and there....
Luke---Thankyou for the explanations...but...I would also like to know the context and the parable ---out of curiosity---also, In Islam, context is provided by Tafsir (though the Quran also gives context if read as a whole)...where do Christians get context from?
In John 14:6 it says " “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."---This passage is often shown to Muslims by Christians and it has meaning for them....But a Muslim reading this as is--without a Christian interpretation----would find this very familiar because that is also how we understand God (come to the father)---through the way (Islam), the truth (Quran) and the life (Sunna/Hadith of the Prophet)....
Likewise, the passage from Luke could be interpreted (from Muslim perspective as "slaying of the ego" because one needs to have humility to come to God) as Jihad---the internal struggle/striving towards God......(a Muslim was discussing it in the context of Jihad and that is where I got it....but this was a Muslim perspective and I wanted to know how Christians understood it)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe only religions that I believe could qualify as religions of Peace based on the historical evidence and their scripture or writings. are Buddhism, Unitarian Universalists. and the Baha'i Faith.
The Buddhists have "warrior monks" because it is part of their belief that defense of religion is an obligation. They also have the concept of "Compassionate killing".......and Buddhists have participated in wars....
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Humanity has a similar general disposition....the same ideas found in religion are also found among non-religious....
Sam Harris---(End of Faith) "Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them"...."we will continue to spill blood in what is, at bottom, a war of ideas."
Micheal Walzer, a Western intellectual and philosopher---(Just and Unjust Wars...) "No government can put the life of the community and all its members at risk, so long as there are actions available to it, even immoral actions, that would avoid or reduce that risk..." and "Can soldiers and statesmen override the rights of innocent people for the sake of their own community? I am inclined to answer this question affirmatively...."
Context and nuance are not just for the religious...but all philosophies....
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe only religions that I believe could qualify as religions of Peace based on the historical evidence and their scripture or writings. are Buddhism, Unitarian Universalists. and the Baha'i Faith.
I don't mean peaceful in terms of never fighting back."Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
"And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.
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Originally posted by Cerealman View PostWhether a religion is pacifist centered or not I think that any Religion can be considered "peaceful" if they only choose to retaliate if necessary.
I don't mean peaceful in terms of never fighting back.Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-09-2015, 07:48 AM.
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Originally posted by siam View PostI have not read the Bible...Though I did go through some of the Torah (Hebrew Transliteration with English translation) Some of the words used in the Torah are also used in the Quran because Arabic and Hebrew are sister languages.....For the NT....I have looked at a few passages here and there....
Luke---Thankyou for the explanations...but...I would also like to know the context and the parable ---out of curiosity---also, In Islam, context is provided by Tafsir (though the Quran also gives context if read as a whole)...where do Christians get context from?
In John 14:6 it says " “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."---This passage is often shown to Muslims by Christians and it has meaning for them....But a Muslim reading this as is--without a Christian interpretation----would find this very familiar because that is also how we understand God (come to the father)---through the way (Islam), the truth (Quran) and the life (Sunna/Hadith of the Prophet)....
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
Likewise, the passage from Luke could be interpreted (from Muslim perspective as "slaying of the ego" because one needs to have humility to come to God) as Jihad---the internal struggle/striving towards God......(a Muslim was discussing it in the context of Jihad and that is where I got it....but this was a Muslim perspective and I wanted to know how Christians understood it)
Luke 19:The Parable of the Ten Minas
11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’
14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
This is about being responsible with what God gives you.
*
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostUnfortunately I believe this lacks a parallel to the parable. The Romans destroying the Temple is not a parallel to the command 'bring them before me and slay them.'"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by siam View PostI don't know much about UU and Bahai so I will agree with you...but Buddhism?....If history and scripture are the criteria---then Buddhism is as "peaceful" as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism....etc.
The Buddhists have "warrior monks" because it is part of their belief that defense of religion is an obligation. They also have the concept of "Compassionate killing"....
To understand this better read The Bodhisattva Warriors by Shifu Nagaboshi Tomio.
...and Buddhists have participated in wars....
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Luke "parable"--I agree with Shuny---I found it confusing----but in my case, I find a lot about Christianity confusing....
@Cerebrum123
Thank you for taking the time to explain...appreciate it.
@Shuny
In the East, Buddhism is integrated into the existing culture/religion/philosophy so it is hard to say an individual is Shinto but not Buddhist, or Buddhist but not Shinto....
(For those who do not know...Buddhism of the West is different from Eastern Buddhism)
You are correct that Buddhists do not fight "for Buddha" but they do fight for Dharma (Law) and this concept has been abused by those in power (Kings) to justify fighting ---and Buddhist kingdoms have fought with each other. This idea to fight for the Law/righteousness/defending right principles---is not that different from Sam Harris saying we have to fight for our ideas, or George Bush saying they are fighting for democracy...etc....
also, there are a few passages in Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra (Nirvana Sutra) that are not pretty....
But, if one were to interpret "scripture" broadly, then the Talmud has restraints on human violence in Sanhedrin which says killing an individual is like killing a whole community, and Christianity has the Catechism (CCC2307-2314) which elaborates on the idea of Just war and conduct in war. Islam has the Quran---(Which may come as a surprise to some) but the Quran restricts war to 2 (defensive) occassions, 1) Oppression and 2) the breaking of treaty terms. The Quran/Islam also specifies humane behavior to non-combatants and prisoners of war and prohibits destruction of property as well as advocates for the most speedy conclusion to war in order to resume peace negotiations as soon as possible. Historically, all religious people have ignored their own wisdom teachings/philosophies when they found them inconvenient....For example...Americans used to find torture unethical and they had restraints for torture---but when they found this inconvenient---they overturned these restraints and torture was practiced....
So if history and scripture are the criteria...then one can say Buddhism is the same as many other philosophies---it is people who interpret scripture and act in history---and people have a similar general disposition. But if we were to base the criteria on the practice of peace---then Buddhism would be better than Judaism or Christianity because it has the mystical discipline...(But so does Islam and Hinduism)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNot a problem. I disagree with 'interpretations' of parables that tend to make Christians comfy."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by Jesse View PostThere is nothing about that parable that would make a Christian comfortable or uncomfortable. So I am not sure what you are trying to say.
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