On which Beast is the antichrist Rev. 13

[Ted]

ICA,

The wrath in revelation 14 I believe is shown so as to tell God's people revelation is concerning the jews and Jerusalem only, not the world. The beast of the sea(abyss) in revelation 13 we know is a "gentile" apostate beast, just as the King of Babylon was a "gentile" apostate beast. The beast from the earth would have to be the "jewish" apostate beast of Jerusalem. It almost appears to be showing 2 types of "babylons", one gentile/physical, the other "symbolic".

You are thinking carefully. That’s good. There are two Babylons, but not the way you’ve divided them. The first is physical, and is a “type” of spiritual Babylon, which is the “antitype.” That’s what Jer 50-51 is about. Where you get Rev 14 being about Jewish penalties, I can’t figure. You’ll have to explain that further.

Your juxtaposition of Isa 5 and 1 with this is good. But you have to look at definitions. Who is Israel? And who is addressed by Isaiah’s prophecy. Remember that he is speaking first to the northern kingdom. That’s immediate and physical. The imagery is then adapted later in Revelation.

Further, look again at Isa 5. Does it say that the people will be put in the winepress if they are wicked? That image, taken in its natural form would tend to say the opposite. Only good grapes are put in the winepress.

Keep working. You are getting there. Sometimes you just don’t think of all the questions the first time through. (Or the second, or third...)

Ted

[InChristAlways]

ICA,You are thinking carefully. That’s good. There are two Babylons, but not the way you’ve divided them. The first is physical, and is a “type” of spiritual Babylon, which is the “antitype.” That’s what Jer 50-51 is about. Where you get Rev 14 being about Jewish penalties, I can’t figure. You’ll have to explain that further.

Your juxtaposition of Isa 5 and 1 with this is good. But you have to look at definitions. Who is Israel? And who is addressed by Isaiah’s prophecy. Remember that he is speaking first to the northern kingdom. That’s immediate and physical. The imagery is then adapted later in Revelation.

Further, look again at Isa 5. Does it say that the people will be put in the winepress if they are wicked? That image, taken in its natural form would tend to say the opposite. Only good grapes are put in the winepress.

Keep working. You are getting there. Sometimes you just don’t think of all the questions the first time through. (Or the second, or third...)

Ted

Thanks Ted. I see we are pretty much on the same page in some ways, so I will keep working on it and appreciate your input.
I thought this was interesting. Jesus said the "ruler/prince" of the world was coming, and for some reason "judas/judah" popped up as he is the one who brought the ones from the high priests to arrest Jesus.
Just coincidence I think. LOL. God bless.

Psalm 41:9 'Yes, my own friend in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.'

Matt 26:47-50 'And while he spoke, Judas/JUDAH, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords... Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whosoever I shall kiss, that same is he; hold him fast... and Jesus said unto him, 'Friend, why have you come?'

john 13:26 Jesus answered, "It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped [it."] And having dipped the bread, He gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

John 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, [and] Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me;

[Lion]

ICA
You said you had a hard time putting the beast of rev 17 into the millenium. Now I think you won’t have any problem with this:

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev. 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This is the standard definition for the millenium, right? The Greek word translated bottomless pit is Strong’s 12. abussos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 1037; boundless, bottomless: —abyss(7), bottomless(m)(2).

Now compare this Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. The beast was. It used to exist, but doesn’t exist now as John is viewing it, because the people that made up the beast are all dead, slain by the second coming. It is made up of the wicked. They come up in the second resurrection.

Now do you understand?

[Richard Lee]

Hello Paul, you have just stumbled on the most important clue that reveals many mysteries that lie in the book of Revelation. Leviathan is a sea beast, but also a metaphor, very important to understand. This serpant moves from the Old Testament into the New. There are seven heads and ten horns. Dan, 7:20 tells us that ten horns use to, at one time, sat upon a head. What head? One of Leviathan's. These are ten kings that ruled a kingdom. The Apostle John informs us that a kingdom will return and when it does it will domonate the world. With much study it will be revealed to whose kingdom the ten horns belonged and if you study hard enough you will be able to count the number of the beast, but first you have to understand how to count the number of a man, then you will understand from where the last two evil kings originate. Thank you, Richard Lee