Cain and Abel, misunderstood...?

[Blessed Daily]

I was recently involved in a lengthy conversation with a co-worker about Cain and Abel. I was hoping I could get either confirmation of my contentions or a better understanding for my incomprehesion....

My co-worker is agnostic, he believes that "God" is real but so is ever other "god" out there (they are all just "floating" out there)...he stated that God told him to study the Bible and learn the truths about it....

He said that Abel was born first and that Cain killed Abel to have the right to present God with offerings...(When I studied Gen 4, what I understood was that Cain was the first born and that Cain was angry that God took favor on Abel's offering and not his)

He also stated that Cain was then cast out from the Garden of Eden; which he did not understand because he thought Adam and Eve were cast out before that - then he stated that Cain was actually born while in the Garden and that he (Cain) is the one that led Eve to the Forbidden Fruit...(my understanding was that Adam and Eve were cast out then had Cain and then Abel...after killing his brother he was condemened to be a fugitive and a vagabond and he left his family to go to "Nod, on the east of Eden)

I apologize for the length of this post (besides my intro. this is my first)...I would greatly appreciate any help on this...I have only recently begun to study the Bible in depth and I fear I may not be a very good student. My co-worker seemed very studious in his beliefs yet I also felt that I was speaking the truth...now I fear I was the one that misunderstood. I would like to go to him and show him what I understand to be the truth and why so that maybe I could lead him to Christ...but I do not feel "steady on these new legs" and could use some encouragement and guidance.

Thank you for taking the time to read (and hopefully respond to)my thread. God's Blessings!

[Straylight]

I'm not sure what the exact question is, but I'll say a couple of things..


Yes, Adam and Eve had already been cast out of Eden (chapter 3 of Genesis). The birth of their sons follows afterwards (in chapter 4).

Cain was born first, correct.

Since God approved of Abel's sacrifice over Cain's, Cain killed Abel out of jealousy and pride (Abel offered up the firstborn and best of his flocks, while Cain just offered up produce).

Cain was banished to the "land of Nod" (which just means "land of wandering").

[Tladatsi]

No, you got it right, Cain was conceieved after Adam and Eve were evicted from Eden. Cain was jelous of Yahweh's acceptance of Able's offering and not his. If you just read the text as it is written, you can't go wrong.

I was recently involved in a lengthy conversation with a co-worker about Cain and Abel. I was hoping I could get either confirmation of my contentions or a better understanding for my incomprehesion....

My co-worker is agnostic, he believes that "God" is real but so is ever other "god" out there (they are all just "floating" out there)...he stated that God told him to study the Bible and learn the truths about it....

He said that Abel was born first and that Cain killed Abel to have the right to present God with offerings...(When I studied Gen 4, what I understood was that Cain was the first born and that Cain was angry that God took favor on Abel's offering and not his)

He also stated that Cain was then cast out from the Garden of Eden; which he did not understand because he thought Adam and Eve were cast out before that - then he stated that Cain was actually born while in the Garden and that he (Cain) is the one that led Eve to the Forbidden Fruit...(my understanding was that Adam and Eve were cast out then had Cain and then Abel...after killing his brother he was condemened to be a fugitive and a vagabond and he left his family to go to "Nod, on the east of Eden)

I apologize for the length of this post (besides my intro. this is my first)...I would greatly appreciate any help on this...I have only recently begun to study the Bible in depth and I fear I may not be a very good student. My co-worker seemed very studious in his beliefs yet I also felt that I was speaking the truth...now I fear I was the one that misunderstood. I would like to go to him and show him what I understand to be the truth and why so that maybe I could lead him to Christ...but I do not feel "steady on these new legs" and could use some encouragement and guidance.

Thank you for taking the time to read (and hopefully respond to)my thread. God's Blessings!

[sylvius]

Yes, Adam and Eve had already been cast out of Eden (chapter 3 of Genesis). The birth of their sons follows afterwards (in chapter 4).

Note what Rashi says on Genesis 4:1 ,
(" Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, and she said, "I have acquired a man with the Lord.")

"[This took place], prior to the above episode, before he sinned and was banished from the Garden of Eden. Also the conception and the birth [took place before], for if it were written: וַיֵדַע אָדָם it would mean that after he had been banished, he had sons. — [from Sanh. 38b]"

(Hebrew has "v'haAdam yada" and not "v'yada Adam" )

it's a widebearing remark, since many christinas hold that original sin was nothing else than sexual intercourse.

Rashi on Genesis 3:1,

"Now the serpent was cunning
What is the connection of this matter here? Scripture should have juxtaposed (below verse 21): “And He made for Adam and for his wife shirts of skin, and He dressed them.” But it teaches you as a result of what plan the serpent thrust himself upon them. He saw them naked and engaging in intercourse before everyone’s eyes, and he desired her. — [from Gen. Rabbah 18:6]"

Rashi to be found on http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=63255

[Straylight]

Note what Rashi says

Meh.

[sylvius]

Cain was banished to the "land of Nod" (which just means "land of wandering").

Just a vagrant, like Straylight?

Name Abel, Hebrew 'Hevel', means; vanity, emptiness, breath.
known from Ecclesiastes,
"havel havalim hakol havel", "vanity of vanities, all is vanity".

'Hevel' is written 'hei-bet-lamed'; so has gematria of 37.

37 is a very special number. How?
I picked up from BibleWheel.http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_37.asp

Isaak was 37 years old when he went with his father up to mount Moriah and watched from there into heaven, becoming blind for worldly things.

See Rashi on Genesis 27:1
"Another explanation: When Isaac was bound on the altar, and his father was about to slaughter him, the heavens opened, and the ministering angels saw and wept, and their tears fell upon Isaac’s eyes. As a result, his eyes became dim (Gen. Rabbah 65:6)"
and Rashi on Genesis 28:13
("And behold, the Lord was standing over him, and He said, "I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac; the land upon which you are lying to you I will give it and to your seed.")
And behold, the Lord was standing over him to guard him.
and the God of Isaac Although we do not find in Scripture that the Holy One, blessed be He, associates His name with that of the righteous during their lifetimes by writing “the God of so-and-so,” for it is said (Job 15:15):“Lo! He does not believe in His holy ones,” [i.e., God does not consider even His holy ones as righteous until after their deaths, when they are no longer subject to the evil inclination,] nevertheless, here He associated His name with Isaac because his eyes had become dim, and he was confined in the house, and he was like a dead person, the evil inclination having ceased from him (Tanchuma Toledoth 7)."

[sylvius]

The blood of the New Testament?

Matthew 23: 29-6,
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the memorials of the righteous, and you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets' blood.' Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are the children of those who murdered the prophets; now fill up what your ancestors measured out! You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna? Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. "