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The Inner Life: Beyond Science?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
    Malicious misrepresentation of my views.




    Willfully ignoring what has already been posted, cited and referred to.
    Max, you may follow the lead of others who have waded deep into the irrational world according to Shuny and put him on ignore...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      One wonders pancreasman if everything is so vague and up in the air for you why not just assume that God exists? At least it would bring some sense of hope to your life...
      I have a sense of hope in my life right now. It is all a wonder I don't have to believe anything to feel good. I feel good already.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
        I have a sense of hope in my life right now. It is all a wonder I don't have to believe anything to feel good. I feel good already.
        ok...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
          I have a sense of hope in my life right now. It is all a wonder I don't have to believe anything to feel good. I feel good already.
          I hope I'm not out of line, but I do recall you saying in one of my threads that you suffered from bipolar disorder, and was easily tipped into depression by others being nasty or condescending. Do you believe this is entirely physiological, or is it possible at all, do you think, that one's mental state can depend upon their overall worldview? I'm not trying to imply that there aren't those who assume God exist and have no hope, I'm certain such people do exist, but...I don't know, guess I'm just stirring the pot a bit since I can see seer's perspective to some extant.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            I hope I'm not out of line, but I do recall you saying in one of my threads that you suffered from bipolar disorder, and was easily tipped into depression by others being nasty or condescending. Do you believe this is entirely physiological, or is it possible at all, do you think, that one's mental state can depend upon their overall worldview? I'm not trying to imply that there aren't those who assume God exist and have no hope, I'm certain such people do exist, but...I don't know, guess I'm just stirring the pot a bit since I can see seer's perspective to some extant.
            I was bipolar as a Christian and now I'm bipolar as a non-Christian. My form of bipolar is at its foundation a brain chemistry phenomenon. To be sure there are 'triggers' that may incite depression or mania but the potential is always there. I am fortunate to be under the care of a good psychiatrist and a good medication regime. If I recall several other Christian twebbers are in similar positions. It therefore seems unlikely to me that philosophical worldview has much impact on these brain chemistry problems.

            In any case, I'm sure you don't recommend someone believe something JUST to make themselves feel better? If the truth turns out to be bitter, we do our best to cope with it, not pretend it is not so.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
              I was bipolar as a Christian and now I'm bipolar as a non-Christian. My form of bipolar is at its foundation a brain chemistry phenomenon. To be sure there are 'triggers' that may incite depression or mania but the potential is always there. I am fortunate to be under the care of a good psychiatrist and a good medication regime. If I recall several other Christian twebbers are in similar positions. It therefore seems unlikely to me that philosophical worldview has much impact on these brain chemistry problems.
              Hmm. Ok.

              In any case, I'm sure you don't recommend someone believe something JUST to make themselves feel better?
              Well, yes and no. I don't think it's wise for one to pin their entire worldview only on that which makes them feel better, but I think that if real joy is a promised result of a worldview, and it manifests in those who hold it, then it might be helpful to keep in mind in a cumulative case for it.

              If the truth turns out to be bitter, we do our best to cope with it, not pretend it is not so.
              Certainly.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                One wonders pancreasman if everything is so vague and up in the air for you why not just assume that God exists? At least it would bring some sense of hope to your life...
                What a nice idea…I recommend Apollo, one of the more likeable deities. He’s the god of music, truth and prophecy, healing, the sun and poetry; how good is that?

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Max, you may follow the lead of others who have waded deep into the irrational world according to Shuny and put him on ignore...
                Irrational!!! You mean like assuming a god exists because it makes you feel good; gotcha! And if rational people like shunya upset your cozy world of assumed ‘feel-good’ deities just declare them "irrational" put them on “ignore”. That’ll show ‘em.

                Ah seer, “denial” is your middle name.
                Last edited by Tassman; 05-26-2015, 10:58 PM.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post

                  Well, yes and no. I don't think it's wise for one to pin their entire worldview only on that which makes them feel better, but I think that if real joy is a promised result of a worldview, and it manifests in those who hold it, then it might be helpful to keep in mind in a cumulative case for it.
                  Then a number of different worldviews would qualify and have a cumulative case for them.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Then a number of different worldviews would qualify and have a cumulative case for them.
                    No doubt.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Irrational!!! You mean like assuming a god exists because it makes you feel good; gotcha! And if rational people like shunya upset your cozy world of assumed ‘feel-good’ deities just declare them "irrational" put them on “ignore”. That’ll show ‘em.
                      No, how about that human rationality, and an intelligible universe makes more sense if it was created by a rational God, than by the non-rational forces of nature. And Shuny does not upset me - he is just whacked. Look at his recent exchange with Max.

                      Ah seer, “denial” is your middle name.
                      This coming from a fundy atheist...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        No, how about that human rationality, and an intelligible universe makes more sense if it was created by a rational God, than by the non-rational forces of nature.
                        There’s no good reason to think the universe was “created” at all and certainly no substantive evidence that a creator deity "did-it".

                        And Shuny does not upset me - he is just whacked. Look at his recent exchange with Max.
                        I disagree.

                        This coming from a fundy atheist...
                        You’re projecting your own “fundyism” onto me.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          There’s no good reason to think the universe was “created” at all and certainly no substantive evidence that a creator deity "did-it".
                          Right, the universe had a beginning. Of course you believe in the god multi-verse... Which we have zero evidence for.

                          You’re projecting your own “fundyism” onto me.
                          Oh please Tass, you are the most closed minded fundy atheist on these boards. Rejoice in that reality...
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Right, the universe had a beginning.
                            Oh right! You know this do you? Evidence please.

                            Of course you believe in the god multi-verse
                            We don't have sufficient evidence to arrive at a firm conclusion at this stage, but it seems likely.

                            ... Which we have zero evidence for.
                            Eternal inflation is predicted by several different models of cosmic inflation and numerous physics theories independently point to a multiverse.

                            http://www.space.com/18811-multiple-...-theories.html

                            Conversely, there no substantive evidence of any kind for the god-did-it model. None!

                            Oh please Tass, you are the most closed minded fundy atheist on these boards. Rejoice in that reality..
                            There's nothing closed minded about requiring evidence for what one believes, quite the reverse, which is why I support scientific methodology.

                            Scientific methodology is the acquisition of new knowledge based upon physical evidence using observations, hypotheses and deductions to develop testable, falsifiable theories, which can also make predictions. These theories are reinforced by continuing experiments from which further technologies and theories can develop. Any science NOT having ALL these components, like ID, is pseudo science.

                            Conversely, Intelligent Design, which you seem to favour as a Christian "fundy", is based on the unproven assumption that the universe must have had a creator or designer, the implication being that the Designer is God. ID cannot stand as equal to true science because it does not follow the scientific method. It does not have a research programme capable of producing true Scientific Theories that can be tested, replicated or provide predictions. This is what a "closed minded fundy" is.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Oh right! You know this do you? Evidence please.
                              So you believe our present universe is eternal into the past? You deny the big bang theory?


                              We don't have sufficient evidence to arrive at a firm conclusion at this stage, but it seems likely.
                              No, nothing seems likely. There is zero evidence for this fantasy. But I will not deny any man his fantasies.


                              There's nothing closed minded about requiring evidence for what one believes, quite the reverse, which is why I support scientific methodology.
                              Of course, that is exactly what a fundy atheist would say. If you are anything Tass, it is that you are predictable.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                So you believe our present universe is eternal into the past? You deny the big bang theory?

                                No, nothing seems likely. There is zero evidence for this fantasy. But I will not deny any man his fantasies.
                                This is a cynical and dishonest misuse of science! You typically cherry pick scientific theories which you think confirm your religious presuppositions e.g. the big bang theory, and dismiss those that don’t such as multiverse theory.

                                “Though the concept may stretch credulity, there's good physics behind it. And there's not just one way to get to a multiverse — numerous physics theories independently point to such a conclusion. In fact, some experts think the existence of hidden universes is more likely than not”.

                                http://www.space.com/18811-multiple-...-theories.html

                                But you prefer to believe in the cosy notion of a divinely created universe as put forward in mythological creation myths deriving from Bronze Age fantasies and for which there is “zero evidence”. Quite the reverse; the available evidence contradicts the biblical creation narratives.

                                Of course, that is exactly what a fundy atheist would say. If you are anything Tass, it is that you are predictable.
                                No, it’s what any rational person would say, namely that it’s reasonable to demand substantive evidence for what one believes in. The alternative is to base beliefs upon man-made religious fantasies masquerading as divine revelation.

                                “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things”. (1 Cor 13.11) I.e. childish things like believing in fairy tales. Grow up, seer.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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