Your Belief Regarding Hell

[$cirisme]

I'm curious what your belief of hell is.

[$cirisme]

BTW, my belief is the last one.

And I can defend it Biblically.

[Faramir]

cirisme:
BTW, my belief is the last one.

And I can defend it Biblically.

OK big man back it up.

(Actually I agree with you, but I would like to see what scripture you use to back it up)

[$cirisme]

Well, since you agree with me, I'm gonna cheat and just copy paste from an article I wrote. :D

Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
-Matthew 10:28

Annihilationists frequently use this verse to “prove” that man will be destroyed in hell. Two points:

• 1. Jesus did not say He would destroy man, He said that He could destroy “soul and body”.
  
  2. Without a body, how can fire be real or people tortured with it?

Something I want to bring up in regards to point one is that the body and soul are critical in understanding the nature of hell. We, as humans, are created with three distinct manifestations, body, soul, and spirit:

May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
–1 Timothy 5:23

Here, it clearly shows that we as individuals are made up of three distinct parts. Let me, briefly, explain what each one function as. The spirit is who we are. The soul is our “communication layer” between our spirit and other spirits. It is how we have a relationship with God, that is its ultimate purpose. It is always seeking God; that is where our “hole” comes from when we do not have a relationship with God. The body is the physical manifestation of our spirit; it is the primary way we communicate.

With that in mind, look at Matthew 10:28 again:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
-Matthew 10:28

In other words, people in hell will have no contact with anything good. No contact with other beings, and worse yet, no contact with the source of all good things, God Himself. If people have no body in hell, then clearly if the flames that is frequently spoken by God are literal, it is completely pointless. After all, without a body, how are you going to experience physical pain?

Imagine, for a moment, that you are asleep on your bed and wake up to discover that your house is on fire. You are completely surrounded by flames and smoke, no conceivable way to escape. You have no hope. Can you honestly imagine anything--except for possibly the cross--more horrifying than that? That is the picture Jesus intended to paint when He talked about fire and brimstone, He didn’t do it to scare people, He did it to show them the harsh reality of eternal separation from God:

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
-2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9

As for hell being "forever" instead of temporary, this quote is interesting...

The Greek word for "torment" in this verse is basanizo. Joseph Thayer's lexicon says the word means "to vex with grievous pains...to torment." Likewise, Arndt and Gingrich's lexicon say the word means "to torture, torment."
.....
...the same word for torment is used to speak of the pains of childbirth in Rev12:2. It is also used of the centurion's sick servant being grieveously tormented by palsy in Matt8:6. It is used in Luke 16:23 and 28 to describe the physical suffering of the rich man in Hades.
....
Now the "torment" in Revelation 14 is described as a 'never-ending' torment:

"And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever.... There is no rest day or night" (verse11).

The words "for ever and ever" translate an emphatic Greek phrase, 'eis aionas aionon' ("unto the ages of ages"). The twofold use of the term aionas is used in Scripture to emphasize the concept of eternity. And the plural forms ("unto the ages of ages") reinforces the idea of never-ending duration. Lutheran scholar R.C.H. Lenski comments,

The strongest expression for our "forever" is 'eis tous aionan ton aionon', "for the eons of eons"; many eons, each of vast duration , are multiplied by many more, which we imitate by "forever and ever." Human language is able to use only temporal terms to express what is altogether beyond time and timeless. The Greek takes its greatest term for time, the 'eon', pluralizes this, and then multiplies it by its own plural, even using articles which make these eons the definite ones.

[R.C.H Lenski, Revelation (Minneapolis: Augsburb, 1961), p.438.]

This same emphatic contruction is used to speak of the never-ending worshiop of God in Revelation 1:6, 4:9, and 5:3. It is also used to describe the eternality of God in Revelation 4:10 and 10:6. We cannot emphasize too strongly that this phrase shows beyond doubt that the physical torment of the wicked is forever and ever and ever.

[Ron Rhodes, Reasoning from the scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses, pp.336-337]

:D

[yxboom]

I voted #3 but it would have been really cool if #4 was apart of #3

[Captain Ochre]

yxboom:
I voted #3 but it would have been really cool if #4 was apart of #3

Ditto--except that I haven't voted as of this writing.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Boom you think there is literal fire??

[Freak]

cirisme:
I'm curious what your belief of hell is.

Hell is a place for non-believers. A place of torment and fire (among many other things). Yes, God will be present in hell, in His wrath and judgement, for He is omnipresent.

[$cirisme]

Freak, would you like to address my argument?(above) :p

[Freak]

cirisme:
Freak, would you like to address my argument?(above) :p

I think you are correct in the eternal nature of hell but incorrect in assuming God is not present. The Triune God is in fact present. Colossians 1 speaks of Christ holding "all things" this includes this place known as hell.

In fact the Holy Scriptures tells us this:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Note: God created all things-God created hell. Secondly, "in Him all things (including hell) hold together." Paul uses the word "in Him" He is present when holding this place. He created called hell-He is present.

[$cirisme]

Jesus was separated from God while on the cross, how can that be if He were right there?

[Freak]

cirisme:
Jesus was separated from God while on the cross, how can that be if He were right there?

Jesus the man, was seperated (in the sense of intimacy) as He bore our sin but Jesus the Divine nature was never seperated.

Same with humans in hell. God will be present, for He is omnipresent. But God will withold His love, mercy, peace, etc. God will be present with His wrath and judgement. But, by His His very nature as God, He is present-as Paul points out in Colossians 1--

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

[$cirisme]

None of the verses you've quoted say that God is everywhere, or that God is in hell. :sarcasm:

[Freak]

cirisme:
None of the verses you've quoted say that God is everywhere, or that God is in hell. :sarcasm:

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

The Apostle Paul tells us in that portion of scripture: For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,...

I think it's pretty clear hell would be included. Who else created hell? The devil (he doesn't create)?

Again, I think Paul was clear when he decribes Christ as being present in this place called hell:...all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Note: All things hold together in Him -looks pretty clear to me that the triune God is present.

[$cirisme]

think it's pretty clear hell would be included. Who else created hell?

Where have I ever said that hell wasn't created by Christ?

I HAVEN'T!

Again, I think Paul was clear when he decribes Christ as being present in this place called hell:...all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Note: All things hold together in Him -looks pretty clear to me that the triune God is present.

Where does it say that?

It's pretty clear to me that without Christ, nothing would continue to exist. :sarcasm: