Google vs. DoJ

[phlydwg]

Whose side are you on?

For background info, read this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/...oj-motion.html

I'm with Google on this one...

[Carpedm9587]

Whose side are you on?

For background info, read this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/...oj-motion.html

I'm with Google on this one...

I believe it was Franklin who said, "A people willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither." We have an administration happy to trade civil liberties, such as privacy and freedom, for what they call "security." It bolsters the power of the government and the people in the government, and funnels money into the war and security industry. And as long as they can play on the fears of the populace, they will succeed.

So why should we be surprised at yet another intrusion? Should we be surprised if the unwashed masses actually support the government in this too? After all, they have traded away much already. And we are certainly a whole lot safer, aren't we?

[phlydwg]

This is an interesting link/flash video about the possible future of Google and the WWW. Kinda scary...

http://www.robinsloan.com/epic/

It was made BEFORE Google made any deals with AOL or Sun...

[Darth Executor]

I believe it was Franklin who said, "A people willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither."

So that's the idiot who came up with that garbage. Anybody know where he's buried so I can go punch him in the face?

[Jme]

So that's the idiot who came up with that garbage. Anybody know where he's buried so I can go punch him in the face?

So what freedoms are you not willing to give up?

Would you have a problem with a program on your (and everyone elses) PC that lets the gov see everything on there and everything you type? It would be difficult but it could be done.

What about having your all your biometric data on file? (actually I'm ok with this one).

Personal trackers for everyone?

CCTV cameras in the home?

[Zeluvia]

So that's the idiot who came up with that garbage. Anybody know where he's buried so I can go punch him in the face?

Umm....I think Franklin wrote that to help convince the Colonists to revolt against the British....instead of cowering in their houses and worrying about who would protect them from the savages and the French if they got rid of the British army.

As Katrina so aptly pointed out, your security is partly your responsibilty.

We have an administration happy to trade civil liberties, such as privacy and freedom, for what they call "security."

No, we have a population willing to give up privacy and control for what the government is selling as "security".

I have no issues with wiretapping, or anyother investigation of US citizens, provided there is a review on it of some kind, by a branch of government not involved in the actual investigation.

Why? Because this kind of invasiveness is power, and power needs checks and balances.

Think harder about it Darth...maybe it won't be just terrorism in the future...maybe it will be if you are a radical fundamentalist Christian....

[Darth Executor]

So what freedoms are you not willing to give up?

That would be rather complex and more writing than I'm willing to commit to.

Would you have a problem with a program on your (and everyone elses) PC that lets the gov see everything on there and everything you type? It would be difficult but it could be done.

Nope.

What about having your all your biometric data on file? (actually I'm ok with this one).

Nothing to worry about unless I'm an incompetent criminal.

Personal trackers for everyone?

I'd prefer personal ID cards. I think they already have trackers for criminals or people on parole. The option to wear a tracker if you go off in the wilderness whould be nice too.

CCTV cameras in the home?

I don't have a problem with the government using covert cameras in a suspected criminal's house to catch him in the act. Cameras just for the sake of having them is a waste of money.

[Darth Executor]

Umm....I think Franklin wrote that to help convince the Colonists to revolt against the British....instead of cowering in their houses and worrying about who would protect them from the savages and the French if they got rid of the British army.

Then perhaps I should start punching people who misuse it *cough*Carpedm*cough*. Not that I agree with Franklin rebelling against the British, but I can now understand it in context.

[Jme]

That would be rather complex and more writing than I'm willing to commit to.

Well I was only expecting something off the top of your head.

Nope.

So you would be fine with that, interesting.

I'd prefer personal ID cards. I think they already have trackers for criminals or people on parole. The option to wear a tracker if you go off in the wilderness whould be nice too.

Yes we have trackers for people who are convicted criminals - instead of keeping them inside or as punishment instead of it.

But what I am talking about is a tracker for each person in a country, to be worn at all times. This would allow the government to know the movements of everyone, whether they have been convicted or not. It would be useful as it would show who they are meeting with. Could catch people cheating on their wife/husband.

I don't have a problem with the government using covert cameras in a suspected criminal's house to catch him in the act. Cameras just for the sake of having them is a waste of money.

Cameras everywhere would enable more criminals/terrorists to be caught - if it could be made cheap enough would you let the government place cameras in your home? Every room and angle? Or would that be too much? Have something to hide?

[Darth Executor]

Well I was only expecting something off the top of your head.

I would not want government hired perverts to watch me shower. I would not want the governemnt invading people's privacy to gather informatin that helps high paying corporations or individuals (corruption, in other words).

But what I am talking about is a tracker for each person in a country, to be worn at all times. This would allow the government to know the movements of everyone, whether they have been convicted or not. It would be useful as it would show who they are meeting with. Could catch people cheating on their wife/husband.

I'm sorry, I don't want tax money wasted on stupid crap like that. There are private eyes people can hire. If it's not an issue of security (and cheating on your wife isn't) I don't want the government involved.

Cameras everywhere would enable more criminals/terrorists to be caught - if it could be made cheap enough would you let the government place cameras in your home? Every room and angle? Or would that be too much? Have something to hide?

If all they're doing is recording, no. Heck, I plan on putting hidden cameras all over my house eventually. If the government is paying people to watch every single camera it's not cheap and it's a waste of money.

[Jme]

[QUOTE=Darth Executor]I would not want government hired perverts to watch me shower.[quote]

what about normal people watching?

I'm sorry, I don't want tax money wasted on stupid crap like that. There are private eyes people can hire. If it's not an issue of security (and cheating on your wife isn't) I don't want the government involved.

That last buit about cheating was an after thought - regardless of that it would be useful in criminal/terrorist issues, tracking everyone would enable the gov to build up a picture of what is going on. So would you wear a tracker? What if they tried to force you yo wear one?

If all they're doing is recording, no. Heck, I plan on putting hidden cameras all over my house eventually. If the government is paying people to watch every single camera it's not cheap and it's a waste of money.

But you could be doing something that is a security threat -- and you not wanting them to makes me suspect you have something to hide!

[phlydwg]

But you could be doing something that is a security threat -- and you not wanting them to makes me suspect you have something to hide!

I think the biggest reasons for invasions of privacy nowadays aren't government-related, but more business related, you know? The more a company knows about you, the better they will be able to sell you their products. I installed Google Adsense on my blog recently and shortly afterwards I found a disturbing tutorial on how to make money using adsense. Apparently there is a place that sells a package with prewritten articles that contain high 'cost per click' key-words so you can get more visitors to your site and more money from your ads... so the whole purpose of the blog is no longer to convey information, but to be a money machine!

I can see how that sort of thing could turn into the 'EPIC' scenario.

[Darth Executor]

what about normal people watching?

Why do normal people need to watch?

That last buit about cheating was an after thought - regardless of that it would be useful in criminal/terrorist issues, tracking everyone would enable the gov to build up a picture of what is going on.

No it wouldn't. Besides, technology will eventually become advanced enough that the government will be able to track people down easily without them knowing.

So would you wear a tracker?

I'm not wearing anything that I don't have to weark (like clothes). I don't even wear a watch.

What if they tried to force you yo wear one?

Then they would no longer be serving their purpose and I would terminate them with extreme prejudice. Unless of course I'm a criminal or a suspected terrorist in which case I wouldn't like it but it would be perfectly acceptable.

But you could be doing something that is a security threat -- and you not wanting them to makes me suspect you have something to hide!

Ha ha, funny. "I could be" is not an argument. If the government has no reason to suspect me of doing something then it is wasting tax payer money and should be replaced with competent people who can get the job done.

[Jme]

No it wouldn't. Besides, technology will eventually become advanced enough that the government will be able to track people down easily without them knowing.

Sure it would, they wouldn't have to have people following them around and could even tell who the met with if they went into places where there are no cameras.

Ha ha, funny. "I could be" is not an argument. If the government has no reason to suspect me of doing something then it is wasting tax payer money and should be replaced with competent people who can get the job done.

But if money were not a issue?

See this is your limit, you think that only the suspects should be watched?

But how many crimes could be solved/prevented if everyone was watched all the time - it doesn't have to be by people computers are coming along and could do the job given time.

[phlydwg]

Not to downplay government espionage though... since that was my original statement anyway... (I should be more consistent)

Whose side are you on?

For background info, read this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006...doj-motion.html

I'm with Google on this one...