Thread: Church Co.
July 16th 2003, 04:25 PM #1
The Church went from Jerusalem to Greece where it became an idea. It went from Greece to Rome where it became an institution. It went from Rome to Europe where it became a culture. It went from Europe to America where it became a buisness. (Taken from a Taylor sermon.)
How do ya'll feel about the current form of the Church where the pastor is the Ceo, the Deacons are a board, and comittes exist to buy space on bill boards?
What do ya'll think? How do ya'll feel?
("ya'll" I'm from Louisiana. Deal with it. )Bow down before my catchphrases that cover bulletwounds with cheery Scooby Doo bandaids!
July 16th 2003, 04:35 PM #2
That makes mee
It is not a business were people move up to the head position, but a brotherhood where the stong serve the weak. Where you think of others needs before yourself. Not a Million dollar fund raiser for a building that may only be used by the majority once or twice a week.
Personaly I left the Instutional church a few months ago and have never regerted it. My fellowship with saints has grown into a family setting rather than a formal group setting. I find that we spend more time helping out one another than trying to figure who should be on the commite to help people. Roof raising helping the sick, helping the new mothers with food and time. I also havbe been given more oppertunites to wittness and teach.
Over all it is a greater blessing than I had ever thought.
July 17th 2003, 02:57 AM #3
They aren't "churches", WCF 23-3
I believe they are no longer "churches." The incorporated church sells indulgences - "tax deductions". They are conscripted agents of the Internal Revenue Service. The primary function is to insure that Biblical Christianity does not advance the Great Commission, that the salt of the earth stays in the "shaker", that the light of the world stays in the "flashlight."
July 17th 2003, 03:17 AM #4
Well, not all churches are like that, even in America. We are certainly not an idea, or an institution, or a culture, but a body of believers, much like many a Calvinistic Strict Baptist or Darbyite Brethren church. Bigger denominations suffer from the managerial/organisational spirit, but still, they don't all end up as money spinning agencies.
July 18th 2003, 11:18 AM #5Well, not all churches are like that, even in America. We are certainly not an idea, or an institution, or a culture, but a body of believers, much like many a Calvinistic Strict Baptist or Darbyite Brethren church. Bigger denominations suffer from the managerial/organisational spirit, but still, they don't all end up as money spinning agencies.
Of course "establishing religion" has nothing to do with having Scripture or prayer in public life, such as schools, government &c. Nevertheless, that is the anti-Christian hostility that has been developed and definition established.
This was later expressed by Congress in a law that allows Churches to become government funded organizations, however, in doing so the church has to give the state jurisdiction over an expanding are of life. In this respect, for example, the financial aspect of a church is commercial and subject to government regulation. Tithes and offerings become "income", that is to say gain or profit subject to taxation. "Religion" becomes a concept of belief and belief only, the practice of that belief is subjective to government's jurisdiction.
It is a platonic division of the spiritual and material being outworked in the law. What every is physical the state is claiming an increasing absolute sovereignty over, whatever is non-physical the state is delegating that to religious area. It's just a twisted way of establishing a new religion that is hostile to the ethics of our nation and is being done in irreligious terms.
For example, our Supreme Court recently found that our states could not criminalize homosexual behavior. The churches that are licensed by the state will now find themselves in a real problem - this is because since the government has claimed absolute jurisdiction over sexual behavior and prohibited criminalization of any activities it becomes a public policy and a protected class of activity. Licensed churches cannot legally oppose any law or public policy.
The vast majority of Christian churches in the United States are licensed and controlled by the government. The threat of taxation, retroactive, is a formidable weapon and I've personally witnessed several of them cave when there isn't any threats. Just the potential concept that a threat could develop.
So, they do in the vast majority march to the money commands of the state.
July 21st 2003, 12:23 AM #6
I'm part of one of the globally widest reaching ministries in the world, and I see nothing of the kind...There are no deacon boards but that whole idea has been taken so far out of context and no one has put a stop to it, what did we expect?
Although think about it, there does need to be a strong business side if you are going to have a large ministry, and the pastor should have most all the say in it. But they shouldn't let this carry over into church services...
The closest my church comes is on things like buying a new ministry bus, or more dorms at our ranch or special community outreach that require funding, he takes it to the church and asks the church's opinion on things, so many things are decided not by a dictatorial board or some out of touch pastor, the church body has a lot to say.The Classic--Everyone Poops
The Lesser--Nobody Poops But You
Catholic--You're a Naughty Child and That's Concentrated Evil Coming Out Of the Back of You
July 21st 2003, 03:14 AM #7
Re: They aren't "churches", WCF 23-307-16-2003 @ 11:57 PM post located here
I believe they are no longer "churches." [GLOW=tomato]The incorporated church sells indulgences[/GLOW] - "tax deductions". They are conscripted agents of the Internal Revenue Service. The primary function is to insure that Biblical Christianity does not advance the Great Commission, that the salt of the earth stays in the "shaker", that the light of the world stays in the "flashlight."
Even when I was in incorported churches I gave only cash. Never a check, never letting the right hand know what the left hand was giving.
July 21st 2003, 04:18 PM #8
yes, there are a number of churches that have become quite the business.. the Wal-Mart phenomena has taken over a big part of the Christian enterprise - megachurches are everywhere across the American landscape, and people are still flocking to them, to hear the polished charismatic (not necessarily theologically charismatic/ pentecostal) preacher, now often on the big jumbotron.. for the pragmatic, it works, and for the masses, they like it. It's the people who are buying in (pun intended) to this consumer mentality.
At the same time, there are similar numbers of grass-roots movement of house churches and organic (disorganized) Christianity taking the form of house churches..
my perspective: the Gospel can take on many forms and shapes, and it takes all kinds of churches (or un-churches) to reach all kinds of people. (cf. Philippians 1:15-18)
dja place called home www.djchuang.com
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