Did Jesus Christ preexist His birth in Bethlehem?

[UrbanMonk]

Just plain... wow...

It's not as far out as you imply. Jesus, the way he overcame the world, is a kind of "first". He, his success, is described biblically as a kind of "firstfruits". He calls us "the light of the world". How is this not the sharing of identity? There is only one Savior. As the Savior saves us, we become saviors as we identify with Christ. It's very simple, with lots of clues even in your own textual reference. Just plain "wow" is what Jesus students were saying even after three years study. So let's not pretend that the gospel is something familiar to human minds. The human mind is "lost". It is found when it accepts a truth that is presently beyond its scope of cognition.

Urban Monk

[runtmc2jc]

[QUOTE=UrbanMonk;2917191...... There is only one Savior. As the Savior saves us, we become saviors as we identify with Christ. .

Urban Monk[/QUOTE]

first you say there is only one Savior.... then you say WE become saviors... you were right the first time.... there is only one savior.... there is only one propitiation for our falleness.... WE were not the "Word made flesh" who dwelt among us;.... WE did not live a perfect life and then sacrifice ourselves for the reconciliation of mankind to God;.... WE did not resurrect from the dead bodily to prove our divinity;..... and WE do not sit at the right hand of the Father....are there any other saviors out there that did all that ??? ..... WE are but fallen, broken souls, longing to be reconciled, yet fighting it all the way (in many cases)....all the time loved and cherished by G-d......the only enlightenment one needs to understand is to love G-d with everything you have, and then to love others as you love yourself.... there's nothing more "spiritual" or enlightened under the sun. Jesus shows us how to do this, as we walk in relationship with him to the glory of G-d....

[UrbanMonk]

first you say there is only one Savior.... then you say WE become saviors... you were right the first time.... there is only one savior.... there is only one propitiation for our falleness.... WE were not the "Word made flesh" who dwelt among us;.... WE did not live a perfect life and then sacrifice ourselves for the reconciliation of mankind to God;.... WE did not resurrect from the dead bodily to prove our divinity;..... and WE do not sit at the right hand of the Father....are there any other saviors out there that did all that ??? ..... WE are but fallen, broken souls, longing to be reconciled, yet fighting it all the way (in many cases)....all the time loved and cherished by G-d......the only enlightenment one needs to understand is to love G-d with everything you have, and then to love others as you love yourself.... there's nothing more "spiritual" or enlightened under the sun. Jesus shows us how to do this, as we walk in relationship with him to the glory of G-d....

You're great misunderstanding comes from mistaking what is to be saved, and how it is saved. A savior would shed light on the problem; darkness/confusion. Darkeness/confusion manifests as "this world". Salvation is for the mind that makes, or otherwise authorizes the making of such a world (of time/mass/legion). Salvation is for the mind of the Son of Go(o)d, and/or an aspect thereof...YOU. Salvation is about saving the powerful from an (ab)use of power. Salvation is not about saving the powerless. So it's not about saving man. It's about saving a mind that thinks it is a man from it's malicious manifestations of mass.

You are greatly misunderstood. A savior would help you understand. You cannot bring your misunderstanding to the World of Real Go(o)d. And so, a savior will tell you the truth. If you were not misunderstood, you would not need the truth. In your misunderstanding, you think you know what is the truth. This is the same problem of all the "lost". And yet, because you are lost, salvation is for your true mind, which has become lost in what it believes is true (but isn't).

Urban Monk

[runtmc2jc]

You're great misunderstanding comes from mistaking what is to be saved, and how it is saved. A savior would shed light on the problem; darkness/confusion. Darkeness/confusion manifests as "this world". Salvation is for the mind that makes, or otherwise authorizes the making of such a world (of time/mass/legion). Salvation is for the mind of the Son of Go(o)d, and/or an aspect thereof...YOU. Salvation is about saving the powerful from an (ab)use of power. Salvation is not about saving the powerless. So it's not about saving man. It's about saving a mind that thinks it is a man from it's malicious manifestations of mass.

You are greatly misunderstood. A savior would help you understand. You cannot bring your misunderstanding to the World of Real Go(o)d. And so, a savior will tell you the truth. If you were not misunderstood, you would not need the truth. In your misunderstanding, you think you know what is the truth. This is the same problem of all the "lost". And yet, because you are lost, salvation is for your true mind, which has become lost in what it believes is true (but isn't).

Urban Monk

I respectfully disagree. Salvation is for the soul/spirit of man, for G-d is Spirit, and to be reconciled to him, our spirits must be "redeemed".... now it is true that the mind is a constituent part of the soul, so that is at least partially correct.........and BTW, the Judeo-Christian G-d is all about the powerless.... Read and meditate on the beatitudes sometime....

Peace....

[barley]

Did Jesus preexist his birth in Bethlehem? Could you explain the word "preexist"? pre meaning before? you mean existed before he existed? Ok, you need to explain that in terms that a fool can understand. the way of salvation is so simple

[runtmc2jc]

Did Jesus preexist his birth in Bethlehem? Could you explain the word "preexist"? pre meaning before? you mean existed before he existed? Ok, you need to explain that in terms that a fool can understand. the way of salvation is so simple

In my understanding (I could be wrong), it was the "spirit" of Jesus that preexisted - as the eternal "Word of God" per the gospel of John.... This spirit, mysteriously combined with the egg of the virgin, produced the human (man/God) we know as Jesus. That makes it easier for me to understand the "Father" and the "Son"..... until God (the Word) became man, there was no "son"......... yet Jesus apparently claimed pre-existance. Did he pre-exist as a man-God, or as a Spirit (aka the "Word of God") ???..... the latter makes more sense to me.

And how/where does the "Word of God" dwell now ??? Is that spirit (?) now forever indwelt in the resurrected Christ, so that they are one for all time since the Incarnation and Resurrection ???

this is my feeble attempt to wrap my brain around vast mysteries - when we throw in terms like eternity, time, space, multiple dimensions, and the like, who knows ???

we see dimly now, but later, face-to-face............ when we will "know as we are known"

[barnasha]

Don't wrap your mind around mysteries of your own construction, instead direct your search towards truth.

[runtmc2jc]

Don't wrap your mind around mysteries of your own construction, instead direct your search towards truth.

There are many "mysteries" of Christian/Judeo-Christian theology and tradition, the scriptures are replete with them. I guess you can ignore them.......... or choose to ponder them....

[Frank4YAHWEH]

No, Yahshua Messiah did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being that was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. Yahshua only pre-existed his birth in the sense that he was in his and our Father Yahweh's plan before the world began.

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[Livelystone]

The Spirit of Christ has always existed in the breakdown as seen in Isaiah Chapter 11 verse 2.

Jesus the man, or whatever name that you give Him who is the Son of God who walked on earth and died for our sins before being resurrected by God the Father, did not exist in the flesh until conceived by the Holy Spirit in the virgin womb of Mary.

Because He became the fullness of the Godhead bodily, He said that He was able to lay Hs life down and pick it up again

Blessings

Doug

[37818]

The Scripture teaches and the orthodox creedal position is that Jesus Christ was begotten from eternity

Where?

Our Lord Jesus Christ preexisted His incarnation. But I would like to here how you conclude "begotten from eternity" from holy scripture. Thanks.

[Isaiah 43:10, 11.]

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Peace greetings (shalom) ALL,

Scripture clearly teaches that Yahshua was a begotten son and nowhere teaches that he is an "eternal son". Since Yahshua is a begotten son, he certainly could not have existed for all eternity as an "eternal son".

[37818]

Peace greetings (shalom) ALL,

Scripture clearly teaches that Yahshua was a begotten son and nowhere teaches that he is an "eternal son". Since Yahshua is a begotten son, he certainly could not have existed for all eternity as an "eternal son".

So do you believe Jesus was really born human?(John 1:14.)
Do you believe that Jesus, because he was truly human, so in that he would not be good (sinless) because he is not also God? (Luke 18:19. Romans 3:10.)

[Frank4YAHWEH]

So do you believe Jesus was really born human?(John 1:14.)
Do you believe that Jesus, because he was truly human, so in that he would not be good (sinless) because he is not also God? (Luke 18:19. Romans 3:10.)

I believe that Yahshua was born and came into existence as a flesh and blood human being. I do not support the doctrine "Jesus IS God!", since Scripture does not teach such a doctrine as this.

[37818]

I do not support the doctrine "Jesus IS God!", since Scripture does not teach such a doctrine as this.

So do you believe Yahshua [Jesus] being a man was therefore a sinner? (Luke 18:19.) Since Yahshua is not also God.