Your desire to leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[Leroy]

I met Randy at the Rescue Mission, he has recently been saved out of the LDS religion and a homosexual lifestyle, I disciple him through the Rescue Missions discipleship program. Currently he is in phase 2 of a 3 phase program the Rescue Mission has to reintroduce homeless people back into society. He lives at the mission and has a job outside of the mission, his heart is on fire for Christ and he loves to help the other people in the mission.


This is an email that he recieved from his brother, and he passed it along to me. He asked me for my thoughts, and I gave him mine, I also asked if I could post it on the tweb and get thoughts from others.



He gave me permission to use it however we wished.


Leroy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Randy, my call today was to discuss the above subject which you have seemed to avoid with me but have mentioned in a passing note to Pat. I can understand why you may want to avoid the subject but it is too serious for me to sit back and be quiet about.



I don’t think you realize how disappointed and sad the family is to here of your latest desires to become a “Pastor” which means you really are leaving Christ’s true church and my guess is you don’t even really comprehend the seriousness of what your are doing. I would guess your thoughts have been seriously clouded as to Christ’s only true church, even after all you have been through by those that are enabling you at this time. I sure you have some good motives in mind for doing so but none can outweigh the fact that you could be doing even a greater service while in the Lord’s church. Nothing would stop you from having even a greater impact for good within his Kingdom. Don’t think you can keep one foot in Christ’s church and one foot over with some church. You know full well what the Lord means when he said that “if ye are not one ye are not mine”



Many questions have been raised in the family as to your motives and lack of understanding of the truthfulness of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon. Given your background with being raised in the Church, having made the covenants he made in the Temple, studying and teaching the gospel as he did as you served a Mission, having then after your kicking against the pricks as you struggled to defend gay rights, challenging the Churches position on this issue and then repenting and turning form that lifestyle and returning to fellowship in the Church and then turning your back on it again is something that I must admit, I have little patience with. Sorry I speak so plainly but I must.



I have to ask myself if any of what you are now choosing to do being driven by those that are supporting you at this time. I must admit that I can't fathom how you can know the truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ and then become a pastor of some man made religion. Does it have anything to do where you feel “most accepted”? I hope and believe your principles run deeper than that. If I have let you down in my support I am sorry. But you must look deeper than to the influence of the current arm of the flesh as they enable you at this time.



I am not saying you will not be doing many Christian things in your new role. But why not do them in his restored perfect organization here on the earth, even if the people in it are not perfect? I would challenge you to go back and read all of 3rd Nephi again before heading down this road you are choosing. I dare you to tell me that Christ did not come to America and that the Book of Mormon is not true and was not brought forth by the hand of God.



My love for you will be much tougher from now on. What I mean by this is that given what you have known, what I have heard you bear testimony to, even your written testimony of the Book of Mormon that you have provided to Jana and I in the past, I believe I must hold up to you the Title of Liberty, so to speak, as Mormon did, “In memory of our God, our religion” and make it clear that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ only true Church on the Earth and I will not support you in any other religious cause. I am not suggesting taking the steps Mormon took after fastening the title on the pole but I think you need to think long and hard about what you are doing. You know how serious it is when one knows what you have known and then turns from it, it is a sad and serious thing.



I am your brother and love you and thus I speak plainly. I am not sure you will heed my words but I can only try. I realize you have your free agency. I am just grateful that Mom and Dad are not aware of this at this time. Please think over the ramifications of what you are doing before proceeding.



Sincerely,



Daurell

[DesertBerean]

It sounds as though Randy has a very loving brother who is concerned that, given his past rebellious behavior within the LDS church, he is going through yet another stage of rebellion this time away from the family as well as the church.

And I have to wonder if the brother is trying to "guilt" him back into compliance. While it may be well-intended, it is not good. Randy must be very careful not to let his sense of guilt overcome his judgment. Considering his past, that sense of guilt can and will be unavoidable from time to time. The key is to keep in mind that Christ forgave ALL his sins. They are gone and forgotten. He is new in Christ.

Randy, your family is probably very heartbroken and angry. Continue on your good course and wait on God; perhaps someday you will be reconciled.

[serapha]

Hi there!





3 Nephi is no more true than 1 Nephi or 2 Nephi or any other part of the book of mormon.

I met Randy at the Rescue Mission, he has recently been saved out of the LDS religion and a homosexual lifestyle, I disciple him through the Rescue Missions discipleship program. Currently he is in phase 2 of a 3 phase program the Rescue Mission has to reintroduce homeless people back into society. He lives at the mission and has a job outside of the mission, his heart is on fire for Christ and he loves to help the other people in the mission.

Randy may need more counseling/mentoring than is being presently offered. And he needs a new family. I think he should do everything to keep the communications open with his family, but no immediate contact with them without someone supporting his new Christian beliefs. His family will break the ties with him soon enough.


There's a lot of "guilt" in that email... I would let "mom and dad" know now what the circumstances are... in a very loving manner, send them a letter so they know the truth and hear it from Randy and not by filtering through family.

~serapha~

[Leroy]

Randy may need more counseling/mentoring than is being presently offered. And he needs a new family...

~serapha~

I'm amazed at the level of counseling/mentoring that is done at the Rescue Mission.

The first phase of the three phase program begins with the requirement to be saved.

All the men are required to go to one bible study each day along with a service that is conducted by local churches each night. The Mission has a full time and part time pastor, and each man in the Phase Program is required to attend a local, approved christian church each Sunday outside of the mission. Most of the men also attend the Wednesday night study at the local church that they attend. Also each man has a personal mentor/discipler from the christian community that meets with them 2 times a week.

The three phases of the program takes a one year commitment from the men.

You can really feel the presence of the Lord when you enter the Mission; I think it would be a great place to begin your Christian walk and to be prepared to be a Christian in the outside world.

[DesertBerean]

I would let "mom and dad" know now what the circumstances are... in a very loving manner, send them a letter so they know the truth and hear it from Randy and not by filtering through family.

...a very wise idea. Let me add a very strong suggestion to involve the pastor in charge and work out the best course of action...and this is VERY strong suggestion!!!! The earlier the better! to avoid this from snowballing.

[PaulT]

Leroy,



Thank you for asking for my thoughts on the matter,

This is an email that he recieved from his brother, and he passed it along to me. He asked me for my thoughts, and I gave him mine, I also asked if I could post it on the tweb and get thoughts from others.

Daurell

I believe you’ve already received some outstanding advice.



In the letter to his family, Randy might want to consider explaining briefly the process he underwent to evaluate the evidence between Christianity and Mormonism. It seems to me that if the family gets an understanding that his decisions were not based on a whim but rather a methodical look at the evidence then this might open their eyes as well as answering any objections that he is just acting like he has in the past.



I believe he needs to explain the difference in assurance of Salvation he now has that He has met the real Christ compared to the Mormon view of things. It seems to me that if he points out the difference in Christ versus the Mormon version, the fact that he is assured of his salvation as he stands now then compares/contrasts this with what his family does in a very lovingly way, then he will have done all he could to be a wittiness to the unsaved, while assuring them he has made a rational decision.



Please let Randy know we are praying for him.



In Christ,



Paul

[Krusader]

I found it very interesting to note that Randy's brother does not say that Randy has fallen from Christ, but rather than he has left the "true" church. Please note that Randy's brother challenges him to admit that the Book of Mormon is not true and that Christ never visited the Americas.

Randy needs to answer that challenge in love. It will be very disconcerting to Randy's brother when Randy meets that challenge and tells his brother (in love), that the Book of Mormon is a piece of 19th century pious fiction based on several different books extant at that time (View of the Hebrews, Campbell's writings, etc.), and that there is absolutely no archeological evidence for a Nephite/Lamanite civilization.

However, then Randy needs to remind his brother that Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible, and that he has committed his life to Him, and having done so, has entered into the mystical Body of Christ, which is the real true Church!

I think the letter to Randy is an outstanding example of the real object of worship among Mormons, and that is the "true church." It's all about "church" and very little about Jesus. In fact, Jesus is so redefined by Mormonism (He is Satan's spirit brother and attained to godhood somehow in pre-existence) that Mormons are blinded to the fact that the gods they serve are "other gods," and that Mormonism is a form of idolatry.

Randy: a word to you. There are many Christians who have struggled with the issues of homosexuality. There is deliverance in Christ - there will never be any deliverance in Mormonism. There is no real power at all in the Mormon "gospel" or "priesthood." There are some good Christian ministries out there ministering to the needs of those who have been in the homosexual lifestyle and who have repented of that sin. Here is one that comes to mind:

http://www.newhope123.org/

In Christ, Crusader

[Leroy]

here is an email from Randy's other brother.





Randy...

I wanted to take a few moments to write you and give you my thoughts on what has been going on lately in the family...mostly our thoughts on your latest decision.

I would lie if I said I'm real happy right now with what you expressed to the family ...your decision to become a pastor.

Like Daurell said...the decision to go that route would be fine....IF you didn't know better, having made covenants within the restored gospel. Many fine men are pastors....also many fine pastors/priests, whatever... find the restored truth and leave their former occupation. This is your decision but I would hate to be in your shoes when at judgement day you stand before Heavenly Father and make an accounting for this decision.

I think what is hard on the family is the way you waver back and forth on issues. When you first announced the fact that you were entering the gay lifestyle Yes, it certainly was a
shock. We were happy that you left that and were re-baptized . Now you jump over the fence again.

I also feel that yes, the Rescue Mission does a lot of good but I gotta tell you...I find it rather interesting . Sharon asked the gentleman there if the residents could attend the church of their own choice. He told her "Yes, as long as it's not LDS!" Why is that? How ironic that the church has given support to the mission and yet they advise residents not to attend the LDS church. Why do you think any of your family would want to give any support to the mission? Satan works in subtle ways.

Randy I love you but I find it sad that you are so weak in a lot of areas. I think you think you seem to be the only one with problems....I sometimes think why do I have the problems I do. An inactive wife and family, the SSA issue and now employment challenges. You know what? I have a
testimony and know that Heavenly Father will watch out for me. I keep paying my tithing. Does this mean that my family will all of a sudden become active? No. Does it mean that the SSA will be taken away right now? NO. Does it mean that all of a suddent I will get a lucrative new job? No. All I know is that I will be held accountable for failing to "hold to the rod" as expressed in the Book of Mormon.

You're a bright individual..what happened to the prospect of becoming a teacher? I told the rest of the family. If Randy thinks we're going to say "Oh Randy, you'll make a great pastor-go for it!" he's wrong.

There..I have said things that are in my heart. I love you as my brother and you do have your agency. I just pray that you would use it wisely.

And like Daurell said I'm glad that Mom and Dad don't know of this recent development.


Phil

[Krusader]

Well, talk about guilt trips! Nothing in this e-mail mentions the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing says that the family rejoices in Randy's new found fellowship with Jesus and the peace he has that his sins are forgiven. It's all Church, Church, Church - and Church means Mormon Church, period!

As I said before, this is the fruit of Mormonism = belief that an institution, a Church can save you. Did the Mormon Church go to the cross for Randy? No, but the Mormon Church expects him to pay 10% of his income to it so that he can "hold" the "rod." How insane is that? Is God bought by tithes? Why, a Mormon can't even get into the Temple unless he's paid the required amount. I seem to recall that Jesus beat the money changers with whips and said that they had made His Father's house a den of thieves! Why should Randy pay anything to a false cult that builds Temples to a god called Elohim (who has many wives) and who was once a man? This is not the God of the Bible, and to pay one dime to this "Elohim" of Mormonism is an act of idolatry.

I'm sorry, but the whole e-mail just reeks of guilt-trip nonsence. Randy needs to just plainly tell his brother and his family that they are involved in a cultic system of belief, and that he prays for their deliverance. Then, he needs to get on with his life. If God is calling him to the ministry, he does not need to be entangled with this cultic influence.

Randy, if the Lord wants you in the ministry, you will know. The call will be certain and sure, and he will make a way!

[Leroy]

Randy sent me this email:

Why I left the Mormon cult:

I had recently become homeless. When I went into the Rescue Mission of Salt Lake for help, they talked about joining the Spiritual Training Program. At the time, I was LDS (Mormon). I said yes because it sounded like a good way to get myself back on my feet mentally and physically. I spoke with Don Rivera, the Assistant Director of the Mission, who is also a pastor of a local church. He mentioned a few things from the Bible. He was respectful and did not shove Christianity down my throat. He did give me some things to think about. I realized that I had not honestly and totally checked out the Mormon church. What Pastor Don said piqued my interest. I dove into the Bible and compared its teachings with those of the Book of Mormon and the Mormon church. Not only did I find discrepancies, but I also found that The Mormon church's history had been glossed over, altered, and blatantly lied about. I also found "josephlied.com" which really blew the lid off Mormonism for me.

Discovering these things made me open my mind and my heart up to the Bible. When I did this, the Lord entered my heart. I accepted Him and turned my life over to Him. I never knew that I could experience so much joy. I also never knew that I could worship the Lord openly and honestly. I threw out all the legalism and formality, and a whole new world of truth unfolded. The obstacle between the Lord and I was removed.

[serapha]

Hello all...


What a wonderful testimony of the grace of God through the Holy Spirit...

Discovering these things made me open my mind and my heart up to the Bible. When I did this, the Lord entered my heart.

Randy's brother that has a problem with a job should be a travel agent and he should sell guilt trips...

I certainly agree that the history of the CoJCoLDS has been glossed over, in fact, some of it has been buried in the hopes of never being found in the archives.

May God continue to bless Randy in knowledge and truth. Where God guides, God provides.

~serapha~

[Krusader]

Randy sent me this email:

Why I left the Mormon cult:

I had recently become homeless. When I went into the Rescue Mission of Salt Lake for help, they talked about joining the Spiritual Training Program. At the time, I was LDS (Mormon). I said yes because it sounded like a good way to get myself back on my feet mentally and physically. I spoke with Don Rivera, the Assistant Director of the Mission, who is also a pastor of a local church. He mentioned a few things from the Bible. He was respectful and did not shove Christianity down my throat. He did give me some things to think about. I realized that I had not honestly and totally checked out the Mormon church. What Pastor Don said piqued my interest. I dove into the Bible and compared its teachings with those of the Book of Mormon and the Mormon church. Not only did I find discrepancies, but I also found that The Mormon church's history had been glossed over, altered, and blatantly lied about. I also found "josephlied.com" which really blew the lid off Mormonism for me.

Discovering these things made me open my mind and my heart up to the Bible. When I did this, the Lord entered my heart. I accepted Him and turned my life over to Him. I never knew that I could experience so much joy. I also never knew that I could worship the Lord openly and honestly. I threw out all the legalism and formality, and a whole new world of truth unfolded. The obstacle between the Lord and I was removed.

This is a great testimony. Since you are in SLC, I suggest you visit with the Tanners (Utah Lighthouse Ministry). They are located in SLC - check a phone book. You can speak to two wonderful persons, Sandra and Gerald Tanner, who also came out of Mormonism and who have done more to expose the errors of that cult than any other individuals. Here is a website for info:

http://www.utlm.org/navnewsletters.htm

[RussianWolfe]

No, but the Mormon Church expects him to pay 10% of his income to it so that he can "hold" the "rod." How insane is that? Is God bought by tithes? Why, a Mormon can't even get into the Temple unless he's paid the required amount. I seem to recall that Jesus beat the money changers with whips and said that they had made His Father's house a den of thieves! Why should Randy pay anything to a false cult that builds Temples to a god called Elohim (who has many wives) and who was once a man? This is not the God of the Bible, and to pay one dime to this "Elohim" of Mormonism is an act of idolatry.

Malachi 8:3-12

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. 12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

That answers the rant about tithes.

As for rejoicing in a 'new fellowship' with Christ, if it were the other way around, if you were to see another friend convert to LDS would you rejoice in his new found fellowship with Christ? What would you do? Then why do you criticize the LDS for doing what you would do? They believe just as sincerely in their faith as you do in yours. Why fault any man for his faith, whether you believe it to be true or good or not? God works with all men according to that light an knowledge that they are willing to receive.

Marvin

[Krusader]

Malachi 8:3-12

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. 12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

That answers the rant about tithes.

As for rejoicing in a 'new fellowship' with Christ, if it were the other way around, if you were to see another friend convert to LDS would you rejoice in his new found fellowship with Christ? What would you do? Then why do you criticize the LDS for doing what you would do? They believe just as sincerely in their faith as you do in yours. Why fault any man for his faith, whether you believe it to be true or good or not? God works with all men according to that light an knowledge that they are willing to receive.

Marvin

Don't put O.T. tithing laws intended for Jews on Christians - we are not under OT law (as are Mormons, apparently). In any case, RW, Randy has found the Jesus of Scripture, not the Jesus of Mormon fantasy literature. Your Elohim, RW, is a false god and doesn't deserve a dime of your money. If you think tithing to the Mormon charade will get you into the Celestial Kingdom, think again. You are worshipping a god who is practicing polygamy and who was once a sinful man like yourself. You are following a so-called prophet who ran away from his flock when the pressure was on (Jesus predicted that false shepherds would do this - and Smith fulfills that prophecy) and who married a multitude of women to satisfy his unending lust and sexual fantasies (without his wife's knowledge). You are the slave of an organization and not of Christ. You need to examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith.

Regarding Smith's escape to avoid capture, see this from a Mormon site:

"However, threats of mob violence increased. In Warsaw and Carthage, newspapers called for extermination of the Mormons. On June 18, Joseph Smith mobilized his troops to protect Nauvoo. When Illinois governor Thomas Ford apparently sided with the opposition and ordered the Church leaders to stand trial again on the same charges, this time in Carthage, Joseph and Hyrum first considered appealing to U.S. President John Tyler, but then decided instead to cross the Mississippi and escape to the West. Pressured by family and friends who felt abandoned and who believed Joseph to be nearly invincible, he agreed to return and surrender; but he prophesied that he would be going "like a lamb to the slaughter" and would be "murdered in cold blood" (HC 6:555, 559). Joseph urged Hyrum to save himself and succeed him as prophet, but Hyrum refused and accompanied his brother to Carthage."

Note that Smith had to be pressured by family (Emma) and friends before he'd return to face the music. Like the false shepherd that he was, he took off and abandoned his followers. Remember the words of Jesus, "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth......" John 10:11-12 Smith was a false shepherd, a hireling, who got paid well for his false prophecies.

See this link for more information:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no99.htm#Vision

[RussianWolfe]

Don't put O.T. tithing laws intended for Jews on Christians - we are not under OT law (as are Mormons, apparently). In any case, RW, Randy has found the Jesus of Scripture, not the Jesus of Mormon fantasy literature. Your Elohim, RW, is a false god and doesn't deserve a dime of your money. If you think tithing to the Mormon charade will get you into the Celestial Kingdom, think again. You are worshipping a god who is practicing polygamy and who was once a sinful man like yourself. You are following a so-called prophet who ran away from his flock when the pressure was on (Jesus predicted that false shepherds would do this - and Smith fulfills that prophecy) and who married a multitude of women to satisfy his unending lust and sexual fantasies (without his wife's knowledge). You are the slave of an organization and not of Christ. You need to examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith.

Regarding Smith's escape to avoid capture, see this from a Mormon site:

"However, threats of mob violence increased. In Warsaw and Carthage, newspapers called for extermination of the Mormons. On June 18, Joseph Smith mobilized his troops to protect Nauvoo. When Illinois governor Thomas Ford apparently sided with the opposition and ordered the Church leaders to stand trial again on the same charges, this time in Carthage, Joseph and Hyrum first considered appealing to U.S. President John Tyler, but then decided instead to cross the Mississippi and escape to the West. Pressured by family and friends who felt abandoned and who believed Joseph to be nearly invincible, he agreed to return and surrender; but he prophesied that he would be going "like a lamb to the slaughter" and would be "murdered in cold blood" (HC 6:555, 559). Joseph urged Hyrum to save himself and succeed him as prophet, but Hyrum refused and accompanied his brother to Carthage."

Note that Smith had to be pressured by family (Emma) and friends before he'd return to face the music. Like the false shepherd that he was, he took off and abandoned his followers. Remember the words of Jesus, "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth......" John 10:11-12 Smith was a false shepherd, a hireling, who got paid well for his false prophecies.

See this link for more information:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no99.htm#Vision

Can I ask why you remark on one point without really providing any answer, ignore the other, and then rant on about some fantasy of your own? Seems to be the typical method amoung your type.

And since when is it a talent of Christians to be able to read the minds of dead people?

Pressured by family and friends who felt abandoned and who believed Joseph to be nearly invincible, he agreed to return and surrender;

Unless you can provide explicit evidence, the part about 'felt abandoned' and 'nearly invincible' is purely an act of mind reading. Joseph had long prophesied that the Saints would go to the mountains in the West and would become a great people. Which has been fulfilled. There was in the planning stages, an exploration party to prepare the way. All Joseph was doing was starting early something which had been prophesied of and was in the process of being planned. The danger from mobs was such that he and others feared for his life. Those that persuaded him to go back thought that if he face his accusers he could be vindicated as he had in the past and that would satisfy the mobs. As history has shown, nothing less than the death of the Prophet would satisfy the mobs. He was not abandoning them, as you have accused him in your revisionist history, but fleeing the lawless mobs that threatened his life.

Now, can you address the other issue that I raised? Why criticize the LDS for something that you would also do if the situation were reverse?

Marvin