The Gay Community v the Faith Community

[Bob Jenkins]

From my inbox

"God made me for a reason and nothing is in vain Redemption
comes in many shapes with many kinds of pain." -- From
"Travelin' Thru," by Dolly Parton, for Transamerica

As these words from Dolly Parton's Oscar-nominated song invoke,
the faith journey for transgender people and religious
institutions that are working to become truly inclusive is one
of understanding that God -- however we understand God --
embraces us for who we know ourselves to be. Transgender people
are a precious gift to the religious community. They challenge
us to view with honesty the limits in our vision of
inclusiveness and push us toward a more expansive expression of
love. As the Rev. Yvette Flunder writes in Where the Edge
Gathers, "The trans community makes us tell the truth about the
blurred gender lines that have always existed in our community.
Transgender [people] make us honest."

However, many places of worship have unfortunately fallen short
in both their honesty and their expression of inclusive love.
Even religious institutions that are open and affirming to gay,
lesbian and bisexual people are often silent about transgender
people. The transgender community calls upon people of faith to
be more compassionate, more loving and more open to the wonder
of difference which is God's gift to all of us

Speaking of only the transgendered population of the Gay community, it is equally applicable to the whole LGBTI community

It should also be noted that pluralism apllies to sexuality as well as faith. We are a pluralistic nation dedicated to respect, by Constitutional edict, the faith of others. To neglect sexuality is to disrespect both Constitution and faith.

[Teallaura]

Sigh....

A) Not according to the Constitution, it doesn't.

B) A proclivity does not equal a religion by any stretch of the imagination - and was not ever part of the Establishment clause.

C) Assumes a disputed point - that 'sexuality' is intrinsic. Seeing as I'm hearing professionally from G/L speakers that sexuality can change over time, this one's about to go down in flames. Wonder if anyone will notice that that is a bad thing for the G/L argument?

D) Extremely poor theology - God takes us 'as is' - but doesn't leave us that way. God didn't make you to be a liar, a thief, a murderer, et al - so why would you conclude that He makes anyone to intrinsically be any kind of a sinner? God takes liars, thieves, murderers - but He doesn't condone - or tolerate - such continued behavior. I doubt seriously that human imperfection was what Ms Parton had in mind - talents, abilities et al are more likely candidates.

[Bob Jenkins]

Sigh....

A) Not according to the Constitution, it doesn't.

Your reference is not clear.

B) A proclivity does not equal a religion by any stretch of the imagination - and was not ever part of the Establishment clause.

Not sure what you're talking about.

C) Assumes a disputed point - that 'sexuality' is intrinsic. Seeing as I'm hearing professionally from G/L speakers that sexuality can change over time, this one's about to go down in flames. Wonder if anyone will notice that that is a bad thing for the G/L argument?

Intrinsic, innate, genetic is not the argument. It may be a "bone" of contention for "the religious" but it has nothing to do with a class of people denied marriage because of a legal activity.

D) Extremely poor theology - God takes us 'as is' - but doesn't leave us that way. God didn't make you to be a liar, a thief, a murderer, et al - so why would you conclude that He makes anyone to intrinsically be any kind of a sinner? God takes liars, thieves, murderers - but He doesn't condone - or tolerate - such continued behavior. I doubt seriously that human imperfection was what Ms Parton had in mind - talents, abilities et al are more likely candidates.

The quote was taken as is from the email. Make of it as you will. I don't find it particulary enlightening either.

Sin is not a subject for secular justice. Get over it.

God's "toleration" is a misplaced argument. It is without conclusive fact. You imply the "bolt of lightning". None here today have witnessed God's judgement except in the minds of perverse TV evangelicals.

I take your sigh and give you back two

[Raptor]

[Bob Jenkins]

Not too salty and light on the butter please.

[Rahab]

Your reference is not clear.

Not sure what you're talking about.

Intrinsic, innate, genetic is not the argument. It may be a "bone" of contention for "the religious" but it has nothing to do with a class of people denied marriage because of a legal activity.

Bonjour Bob... no sigh but a pleasure to see your posts, thus a .

Keep in mind that there may be some degree of wishful thinking among some that homosexuality and transgendering be declared illegal activities. However, I am always amazed when homosexuality is compared to declared criminal activities such a theft and murder.

The quote was taken as is from the email. Make of it as you will. I don't find it particulary enlightening either.

Sin is not a subject for secular justice. Get over it.

And if it were a subject to secular justice, there would be an awful lot of folks facing criminal charges for glutony among other sins.....

God's "toleration" is a misplaced argument. It is without conclusive fact. You imply the "bolt of lightning". None here today have witnessed God's judgement except in the minds of perverse TV evangelicals.

I take your sigh and give you back two

I have to wonder what God is to "make" with individuals born with hermaphroditism....