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This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

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Darwin's Day

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  • #31
    Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    That's good Jorge, let the jealousy and bitterness flow out.

    Darwin is honored because of his great insight into the workings of the natural world.
    But it is a good point that if that's the case then why don't we don't have a Newton Day or Einstein Day.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      But it is a good point that if that's the case then why don't we don't have a Newton Day or Einstein Day.
      AFAIK it's because no one has pushed for them to have one.

      Comment


      • #33
        Einsteins' birthday IS celebrated at Princeton.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by phank View Post
          Einsteins' birthday IS celebrated at Princeton.
          In a combined celebration with "Pi Day"

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            In a combined celebration with "Pi Day"
            Which is much more important.
            I'm not here anymore.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
              Which is much more important.
              By at least 3.14159%

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                By at least 3.14159%
                Unless you believe in a literal and inerrant Bible. Then it's 3.000%

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                  Unless you believe in a literal and inerrant Bible. Then it's 3.000%
                  I love a good zinger!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    IIRC, the purpose of this forum is supposedly to discuss science, e.g., the science of the history of Earth, the Solar System, and the Universe. Chuck Darwin contributed greatly to biological science. If the UK wants to have a special day for him, so be it. And I re-reiterate that whatever kind of human being Darwin was (and he was a very good one!), the results of his investigations revolutionized biology. They didn't "prove" atheism anymore than Kepler's or Newton's did. If certain atheists what to use his work to bolster their philosophy, so be it.

                    So, it's ok for us to yimmer-yammer about whether there should be a Darwin Day or a Newton Day or a Marconi Day or a George McCready Price Day. It doesn't make a jot or tittle's worth of difference to the quality, or lack of the same, of their scientific work. Using Darwin-bashing as an argument against biological evolution could fill a chapter in a dissertation on logical fallacies.

                    Also wiederhole ich, "Big Deal".

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                      Unless you believe in a literal and inerrant Bible. Then it's 3.000%
                      I've always felt that could be explained by the diameter of the basin being measured on the inside whereas the circumference being measured along the outside. Or the number could have just been rounded off.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        I've always felt that could be explained by the diameter of the basin being measured on the inside whereas the circumference being measured along the outside. Or the number could have just been rounded off.
                        Yeah, that's the ticket! If the number were rounded off, it would make a kinda funny circle if the specified major axis is as written.

                        What's great about literalism is that one can always fangle the text so it works.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          I've always felt that could be explained by the diameter of the basin being measured on the inside whereas the circumference being measured along the outside. Or the number could have just been rounded off.
                          Way to hose up a good joke by overanalysis.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            I've always felt that could be explained by the diameter of the basin being measured on the inside whereas the circumference being measured along the outside. Or the number could have just been rounded off.
                            No. Just no. You could figure it's wrong merely from its origins with apologists. Those who begin with their wanted conclusion will only by accident get their arguments right. Why would anyone measure the diameter and circumference differently? Ad hoc, and stir. More, the passage speaks of a basin "rounded all about," not "perfectly round." For that reason alone, there's no reason to drag pi into the discussion. We've no reason to believe the "sea" was even circular. Rounded edges do not a circle prove.

                            Even more fundamentally, pi does not exist in the real world. It exists only on a Euclidean plane, which cannot exist anywhere in our universe. Even the most minute speck of matter warps space enough to prevent any surface from being truly flat.

                            More, we know the actual value of pi.

                            pi = 4 (1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - 1/11 + ...)

                            That's not approximate. That's exact. A thousand, million, billion, trillion, quadrillion ... decimal places worth of exact digits. We can do that in mathematics. We can have exact answers. Because we're not constrained by any features of the real world. But in the real world, there was this fellow named Heisenberg, famous for a lot of things, but especially for showing us that exact answers cannot exist in reality. Of this uncertainty we can be certain.

                            So take your grubby paws out of our circles, or I'll summon up Archimedes ghost to haunt you throughout eternity.

                            As ever, Jesse

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                              No. Just no. You could figure it's wrong merely from its origins with apologists. Those who begin with their wanted conclusion will only by accident get their arguments right. Why would anyone measure the diameter and circumference differently? Ad hoc, and stir. More, the passage speaks of a basin "rounded all about," not "perfectly round." For that reason alone, there's no reason to drag pi into the discussion. We've no reason to believe the "sea" was even circular. Rounded edges do not a circle prove.

                              Even more fundamentally, pi does not exist in the real world. It exists only on a Euclidean plane, which cannot exist anywhere in our universe. Even the most minute speck of matter warps space enough to prevent any surface from being truly flat.

                              More, we know the actual value of pi.

                              pi = 4 (1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - 1/11 + ...)

                              That's not approximate. That's exact. A thousand, million, billion, trillion, quadrillion ... decimal places worth of exact digits. We can do that in mathematics. We can have exact answers. Because we're not constrained by any features of the real world. But in the real world, there was this fellow named Heisenberg, famous for a lot of things, but especially for showing us that exact answers cannot exist in reality. Of this uncertainty we can be certain.

                              So take your grubby paws out of our circles, or I'll summon up Archimedes ghost to haunt you throughout eternity.

                              As ever, Jesse
                              As if we ever needed more evidence that mathematicians were of the devil
                              • “The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of hell.” --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram
                              • “Geometry is of the devil” --Dominican Father Tommaso Caccini (d. 1648)
                              • “Mathematics should be banished as the authors of all heresies.” --ibid




                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                                Name a scientist whose work has had a more far reaching and long lasting influence on the modern sciences that Charles Darwin. There have certainly been lots of brilliant scientific minds in the last two centuries but no single idea in science has had as much of a profound effect as Darwin's.
                                Isaac Newton
                                Albert Einstein
                                Neils Bohr
                                Louis Pasteur
                                Werner Heisenberg
                                Max Planck

                                All have had far reaching impact on modern science, at least equal to Darwin.

                                Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                                That's why he is feted. It has nothing to do with religion or atheism.
                                That is why Darwin Day is supported by:The Council for Secular Humanism
                                The Freedom from Religion Foundation
                                The Humanist Association of Canada
                                The American Humanist Association
                                The British Humanist Association
                                The Campus Freethought Alliance
                                The Alliance for Secular Humanist Societies
                                The International Humanist and Ethical Union
                                The International Darwin Day Foundation
                                The American Humanist Association



                                Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                                Are you jealous like Jorge because we don't have any days dedicated to Creationist "scientists"? Maybe we can have April 15th renamed to National Kent Hovind Pay Your Taxes day.
                                Since I am not a fan of YE Creationism your foolish smear does not relate to me. I don't usually agree with Jorge, and I don't agree with his whole post. It is nevertheless true that while Darwin has had an impact on science, that impact is highly exaggerated. And atheism is the major force behind the celebration.

                                I am not aware of any major (or even minor) celebration aimed at any of the other more important scientists of history. The lack of government support is irrelevant.
                                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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