Hologram This...

[Truthseeker]

No, the universe cannot be assumed to be closed system.

If I were you, I'd say, instead, "We do not have observations that indicate the currently-observable universe is an open system. And furthermore, if we do have such observations such that we can naturally infer energy input to the universe, then we can redefine 'currently-observable universe' to include the sources of such energy. Hence it is natural to assume that the presently-observed universe is closed, at least for theoretical purposes."

[Leonhard]

A short post about how I'm not qualified to disagree with you, because I've what... not cited online articles? I've stated some facts, and some problems with your post. You've responded to neither except by denying what I've said, and posting bulk citations without context, and you've demonstrated that you didn't even understand the contents of the things you cited, vis-a-vis Richard Carrier's article.

Am I qualified? Yes, I'm the only one of us who's studied this as a post-graduate level. The only reason I don't get more technical is A: You wouldn't be able to understand it, and there's no use in showing off. B: It involves math, and this forum does not have LaTeX support and I don't feel like seperately importing a dozen well crafted pngs.

Now, back to ignore with you. Will be seeing you.

Like this.

This message is hidden because shunyadragon is on your ignore list.

[shunyadragon]

If I were you, I'd say, instead, "We do not have observations that indicate the currently-observable universe is an open system. And furthermore, if we do have such observations such that we can naturally infer energy input to the universe, then we can redefine 'currently-observable universe' to include the sources of such energy. Hence it is natural to assume that the presently-observed universe is closed, at least for theoretical purposes."

The science of cosmology extends beyond our current observable universe. I do not think there is an assumption we can make either way. Sound theories propose we are in a multiverse with many possible universes, therefore the possibility of an open system.

[Truthseeker]

The science of cosmology extends beyond our current observable universe. I do not think there is an assumption we can make either way. Sound theories propose we are in a multiverse with many possible universes, therefore the possibility of an open system.

You seem to say that we should not have a variety of theories.

[shunyadragon]

You seem to say that we should not have a variety of theories.

No. In fact the variety of theories pretty much precludes any assumption of a closed nor open universe.

[Truthseeker]

No. In fact the variety of theories pretty much precludes any assumption of a closed nor open universe.

Perhaps you should rephrase.

[shunyadragon]

Perhaps you should rephrase.

No, we have insufficient evidence assume a conclusion either may. Our Universe may be closed system (unlikely), or as is the most likely case, in my view an open system at the beginning and end within a greater cosmos we call the multiverse like bubbles in carbonated water.

[Truthseeker]

No, we have insufficient evidence to assume a conclusion either way. Our Universe may be closed system (unlikely), or as is the most likely case, in my view an open system at the beginning and end within a greater cosmos we call the multiverse like bubbles in carbonated water.

fifync (bolded words). Now, the "greater cosmos" is not observable beyond the universe that we live in, right?

[shunyadragon]

fifync (bolded words). Now, the "greater cosmos" is not observable beyond the universe that we live in, right?

Correct, but the foundation of physics and cosmology today is not based on the observable. The observable is more the realm of Newtonian physics.

[Truthseeker]

Correct, but the foundation of physics and cosmology today is not based on the observable. The observable is more the realm of Newtonian physics.

So, what is the foundation?

[shunyadragon]

So, what is the foundation?

Falsifiable theories and hypothesis.