The Church has lost its voice in the US

[Cow Poke]

Because the hypocrisy of marrying divorcees and condemning gay marriage is indicative of why the Church has lost its voice.

Interesting that I've never heard that as an argument from our opponents - even with the finest legal minds and most ardent defenders of gay rights at the hearings in Austin - nobody brought that up as an issue.

[themuzicman]

Interesting that I've never heard that as an argument from our opponents - even with the finest legal minds and most ardent defenders of gay rights at the hearings in Austin - nobody brought that up as an issue.

I hear it all the time from atheists and gay activists.

[mossrose]

Yes, it is brought up over and over again by those who want their sin accepted. So is eating shellfish and stuff.

I think it is a way of red herring-ing the homosexual issue. We get all tied up with answering those things and lose focus on the issue at hand.

[themuzicman]

Yes, it is brought up over and over again by those who want their sin accepted. So is eating shellfish and stuff.

I think it is a way of red herring-ing the homosexual issue. We get all tied up with answering those things and lose focus on the issue at hand.

You don't seen an obvious hypocrisy in ignoring biblical teaching on marrying divorcees by marrying them, but publicly demanding that gay marriage is wrong?

[Cow Poke]

I hear it all the time from atheists and gay activists.

That's interesting, albeit, in my opinion, irrelevant.

[Cow Poke]

You don't seen an obvious hypocrisy in ignoring biblical teaching on marrying divorcees by marrying them, but publicly demanding that gay marriage is wrong?

"Gay marriage" is a declaration that "we intend to continue to rebel against God".

I guess the bottom line, Muz -- do you consider homosexuality a sin?

[Cerealman]

I've stopped going to church with my parent and whenever I have questions on things I just come here or search whatever it is on Google. A while ago I came pretty close to becoming an atheist but things changed I suppose.

[One Bad Pig]

I've stopped going to church with my parent and whenever I have questions on things I just come here or search whatever it is on Google. A while ago I came pretty close to becoming an atheist but things changed I suppose.

Christianity is about community, not answering questions. You really should be attending church somewhere.

[Abigail]

I guess the bottom line, Muz -- do you consider homosexuality a sin?

He can obviously answer this himself but I think he does. He seems to be arguing that if we had not been so lax in the past then we might have had more clout when it came to proclaiming the sanctity of marriage. I tend to agree, we have been hypocrites in some respects.

My current church has married divorcees who I have wondered about but haven't asked. In anycase one would hope the minister attends to all that though I think they are pretty liberal on the whole. At my last church we had a case where an older man wanted to get remarried and the minister refused. It was quite sad as he had lost his wife to cancer years before and having a whole string of kids had married again and it was a bad choice and the woman was awful to his children. In the end they parted company and then much later in life he met the other lady. She was also in our church and they did make a lovely couple (I was very good friends with one of his daughters). Anyway since his ex-wife had never committed adultery or remarried and was still alive, our minister would not marry them. The minister had his say from the pulpit and then the guy got up and had his say, so everyone got to know everything. It was a lesson for all of us because some of us had never even thought about those things.

[Jedidiah]

Really? What distinguishes the Church from the culture based upon the actions of its attendees?

For me to answer that I will need you to tell me who is the Church.

[Jedidiah]

I was referring to the US church today.

The church in the US today is not the Church.

[Jedidiah]

People who are gay (and become celibate) can certainly become mature Christians, and even hold some important positions in the Church, just as someone who formerly lived a life of sin, and was married and divorced can become mature a mature Christian and be single and celibate.

You are being inconsistent. You make accusations about marrying people who were married and divorced as unbelievers, but allow repentant (celibate) homosexuals to hold important positions in churches (not The Church). You can not have it both ways.

[Jedidiah]

So is this whole thread about divorce?

It seems to be just a smoke screen.

[Jedidiah]

I hear it all the time from atheists and gay activists.

I see it as a valid condemnation in many cases. Local churches may go easy on unjustified divorce, adultery, fornication, or other clearly sinful behaviors. That is still not a condemnation of the true Church.

[Jedidiah]

I've stopped going to church with my parent and whenever I have questions on things I just come here or search whatever it is on Google. A while ago I came pretty close to becoming an atheist but things changed I suppose.

It is not wise to avoid going to church unless the church is teaching clearly wrong stuff. In that case find your own church that follows scripture.