SSM Coming From a Bisexual Christian

[Adrift]

From what you say in your various posts here, I'm not seeing any evidence that there was strong encouragement from schools of other social institution for you and others to experiment. Rather, you're saying that many of your friends were that way inclined and you thought you might be yourself.

I'm not certain what you're trying to say here. Were you under the impression that what Abigail meant was that the teachers were giving students assignments to have sexual interactions with one another?

Your concern seems to be that unless there exists a sufficiently strong social prejudice against that sort of thing, then anyone who feels that way inclined may indeed act on their desires. I agree: If it isn't banned then the people who want to do it, will do it. The most overoptimistic estimates I've seen of the number of gay and bisexual people in the general population are that 10% of people are gay and 20% are bisexual, while more conservative estimates place the combined totals at 10%, 5%, or 2.5%. So we're not talking about the majority of people wanting to try it out. And we're not talking about schools actively encouraging kids to do so as part of an intentional policy.

Quite the opposite. My concern is that there is sufficiently strong social glorification of homosexuality and pressure to try sexual experimentation. If there were more of a "take it or leave it" social mindset, perhaps I'd be less concerned, but that simply hasn't been my experience.

[Adrift]

From what I understand, experiencing a fair amount of stress over sexual identity is fairly common among bisexual people. Just bear in mind that bisexuals are a minority, and so it's not justified to project your own experiences to everyone else in this instance.

Equally, bear in mind that bisexual people, being attracted to both genders, when choosing what relationships to pursue, can make a choice if they wish to only pursue relationships with a particular gender and so end up with someone they are happy with of the gender of their choice. People who are attracted to only one gender don't have that freedom of choice. Telling them that they ought to make the 'right choice' like you did is unreasonably projecting your own desires on to them, and asking something quite different of them than what you yourself chose and experienced.

I wasn't bisexual, nor am I currently bisexual. I was simply sexually confused, as are many other young men and women I have no doubt.

[whag]

How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it.

I have sexually "confused" great aunts who grew up in the 50s when society most definitely didn't "celebrate" homosexuality who had full-blown sex with females. That's an ignorant statement more informed by Dobson types (and your anecdotal experience) than anything else.

That's all it took for me to be seriously confused about my sexual orientation.

And that has nothing to do with the bisexual expressions of those who preceded the 70s. Don't blame the celebrators for your having sex with men. That's pathetic.

[Starlight]

I wasn't bisexual, nor am I currently bisexual. I was simply sexually confused, as are many other young men and women I have no doubt.

The word "bisexual", like "gay" and "lesbian", refers to who a person is attracted to, not who they have sex with. ie their desires, not behavior. Most people have a very strong attraction to one gender or the other, and so there is basically nothing for them to be confused about. However people who experience a level of attraction to various people of different genders often describe themselves as confused.

[Adrift]

The word "bisexual", like "gay" and "lesbian", refers to who a person is attracted to, not who they have sex with. ie their desires, not behavior. Most people have a very strong attraction to one gender or the other, and so there is basically nothing for them to be confused about. However people who experience a level of attraction to various people of different genders often describe themselves as confused.

Yes, I know what the word "bisexual" means.

[Abigail]

The word "bisexual", like "gay" and "lesbian", refers to who a person is attracted to, not who they have sex with. ie their desires, not behavior. Most people have a very strong attraction to one gender or the other, and so there is basically nothing for them to be confused about. However people who experience a level of attraction to various people of different genders often describe themselves as confused.

There is definitely room for confusion especially when it comes to young or immature people aspiring to be like someone who functions for them like a role model or something. The young person may not even be thinking on a sexual level at all but more that they really like the person and would like to be in their company or look or dress like them or something. Later when they do have a proper relationship they can then look back and see that their liking of the person had nothing to do with sex but more that they idolized a person who they wanted to be similar to, or maybe even a mother or father figure. This type of thing is well known and that is why it is so frowned upon for doctors and post 16 high school teachers etc to get involved with their clients because of the mix of a capable individual who's role carries the power and the other person in a position of feeling they are lacking something or feeling good about themself in the other person's presence because of flattery etc. These types of relationships can be exploited, especially where the powerful one has different expectations of the relationship than the less powerful one and confusion can result .

It is also noteworthy here how adamant you are that Adrift is bisexual when he, who has more insight into his own thinking has said he isn't. I can easily see how a young immature person could have their head talked in by a person like you!

[whag]

There is definitely room for confusion especially when it comes to young or immature people aspiring to be like someone who functions for them like a role model or something. The young person may not even be thinking on a sexual level at all but more that they really like the person and would like to be in their company or look or dress like them or something. Later when they do have a proper relationship they can then look back and see that their liking of the person had nothing to do with sex but more that they idolized a person who they wanted to be similar to, or maybe even a mother or father figure. This type of thing is well known and that is why it is so frowned upon for doctors and post 16 high school teachers etc to get involved with their clients because of the mix of a capable individual who's role carries the power and the other person in a position of feeling they are lacking something or feeling good about themself in the other person's presence because of flattery etc. These types of relationships can be exploited, especially where the powerful one has different expectations of the relationship than the less powerful one and confusion can result .

It is also noteworthy here how adamant you are that Adrift is bisexual when he, who has more insight into his own thinking has said he isn't. I can easily see how a young immature person could have their head talked in by a person like you!

Adrift can explain if his experiences are more akin to what you described (idolatry) and not actual sexual attraction. No one is claiming that manipulations like what you described don't exist.

Here's the thing. Adrift made a naff claim about confusion only being influenced by social celebration of same gender sex:

How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it.

If you know anything about bisexual expression prior to the 70s (I'm presuming that's when he thinks the celebration started), then he and you know that's dead wrong. Sexual "confusion"--being strongly physically attracted to the same gender--isn't caused by outside celebratory peer pressure but long preceded anything remotely resembling public acceptance. It was quite a different environment in the 50s. Homosexuality was not celebrated but also a huge taboo.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Perhaps you were sheltered, or perhaps you willfully ignored it, or perhaps you were lucky to be in a school where this wasn't a concern. You have two people in this thread now telling you that it has happened. That it does happen. That have experienced it personally. How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it. That's all it took for me to be seriously confused about my sexual orientation. To stay awake late at night wondering to myself, and worrying "Am I gay? Why do some of my thoughts go to these places? Who am I?" The question "Who am I?", is, in my opinion, a normal thought process for a teenage boy or girl, but it's only been within the last 30 years or so that the sexual orientation question has been mixed into the batter.

It took many years, and many sleepless night to realize that that voice of fear and confusion had no hold on me. I eventually came to the conclusion that "No, I know who I am. I'm a son of God, and I don't need to pay any more heed to these thoughts, and lies bubbling up inside my head". I eventually cleared the confusion and clutter out of my head, but I know a lot of people who were not as successful. Who ended up living very destructive lives because of it.

There's a lot of truth to this. I've told Allie to identify herself as someone who has tendencies. Why? Because who she really is is the person she will be around the throne of God one day when God has removed all that is sinful from her. That is, all that is not her. God has to remove all that is not me as well, and that leaves a lot to remove. If you're a Christian, you're a new creation. There's no need to identify yourself with the old creation. Your identity is Christ. You are to be conformed to the likeness of the Son of God. I compare it to Donatello's David. It's been said that he made the statue by taking the slab and removing everything that wasn't David. That's what God does to us. Problem is we living sacrifices keep jumping off the altar, especially with any instance of pain, which is something that we don't understand as being used to shape us.

You're certainly right that this acceptance of different lifestyles will only lead to more confusion. Our youth have enough to be confused about. They don't need their very identities added to it.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I thought fm93 was reasonably polite in the way he asked Allie about some of the more absurd and horrible things she was saying.

I would be interested in knowing these "absurd and horrible" things.....

[whag]

You're certainly right that this acceptance of different lifestyles will only lead to more confusion. Our youth have enough to be confused about. They don't need their very identities added to it.

That's not what Adrift said. He proposed that the only thing that causes someone like Toodles to be attracted to women is social celebration of the lifestyle. That's actually not true. In fact, it's so ingrained in biology that Toodles identified herself as a bisexual Christian. It's not a current struggle merely because of social pressure.

Listen, you can attribute sexual confusion to the removal of the social taboo all you want. That's not going to make it true. Strong same sexual attraction long preceded sympathy for Stonewall.

[Adrift]

You're certainly right that this acceptance of different lifestyles will only lead to more confusion. Our youth have enough to be confused about. They don't need their very identities added to it.

Yep. That's exactly what I was getting at. Pretty certain that most people in this thread understood that point. Sad that a few (or maybe just one) have such terrible reading comprehension.

[whag]

Yep. That's exactly what I was getting at. Pretty certain that most people in this thread understood that point. Sad that a few (or maybe just one) have such terrible reading comprehension.

You said "what causes the confusion?" then say the ONLY thing that causes it is the removal of the taboo we see today. That doesn't even work as a hyperbolic statement. It's an insult to people like Toodles to attribute her strong attraction to her own gender as something that the media caused (and made permanent!) and not something inherent biologically. Many young people find their own gender sexually attractive for a much deeper reason than the removal of a social taboo, and you know it.

[Adrift]

You said "what causes the confusion?" then say the ONLY thing that causes it is the removal of the taboo we see today.

You're lying whag. That's not what I said.

[whag]

You're lying whag. That's not what I said.

You:

"How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it."

That's an absurd statement. If that's all it took for you to express bisexual behavior, you're an outlier. If I'm a heterosexual male who can only be turned on by female apparatus, no amount of gay parade watching will make me want to touch a man sexually. That's not the way it happens in most cases.

[Adrift]

You:

"How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it."

You knew the context. Stop playing stupid.

That's an absurd statement.

Yes. You've repeated that sentiment about three or four times now. We got it.