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Thread: Camels in Genesis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    He quotes Bulliet a fair bit and points to some other scholars who support an earlier domestication of the camel. As far as I know, Miller isn't known to misrepresent the data of scholars.
    Miller isn't known for misrepresenting the scholars that he selects, but he exclusively selects from scholars that support his presuppositions. This is his privilege, but it does not give an accurate understanding of the scholarship on the issue.

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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    Miller isn't known for misrepresenting the scholars that he selects, but he exclusively selects from scholars that support his presuppositions. This is his privilege, but it does not give an accurate understanding of the scholarship on the issue.
    Ok so what about the evidence that Miller presents?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Ok so what about the evidence that Miller presents?
    QW, look at things from my side for a moment if you will.

    You have 100 scholars (just an example number) on one side of a debate, and they say one thing. You have one scholar on the other side of the debate, and he or she says something else. And you have folks like Miller who only cite the one scholar, because that scholar supports his presuppositions.

    In this, Miller is not even wrong. The historical existence of Abraham has already been discarded by the historical and archaeological community ... save amongst the small minority of scholars who insist on a literal reading of the narratives.

    Asking me to engage Miller's evidence is every bit as unproductive as asking me to weigh in on the arguments of Paracelsis in the context of a discussion of alchemy. I reject alchemy as a valid method of discovery. Why would I be concerned about a small detail within an argument about a discipline I reject?

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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    QW, look at things from my side for a moment if you will.

    You have 100 scholars (just an example number) on one side of a debate, and they say one thing. You have one scholar on the other side of the debate, and he or she says something else. And you have folks like Miller who only cite the one scholar, because that scholar supports his presuppositions.
    I usually look at the evidence more though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    In this, Miller is not even wrong. The historical existence of Abraham has already been discarded by the historical and archaeological community ... save amongst the small minority of scholars who insist on a literal reading of the narratives.?
    Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    Asking me to engage Miller's evidence is every bit as unproductive as asking me to weigh in on the arguments of Paracelsis in the context of a discussion of alchemy. I reject alchemy as a valid method of discovery. Why would I be concerned about a small detail within an argument about a discipline I reject?
    Well it is about the time of camel domestication in the ANE. Why not check around for other scholars who think these arguments are bad and list their reasons?
    Last edited by Quantum Weirdness; 02-12-2014 at 04:42 PM.
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Well it is about the time of camel domestication in the ANE. Why not check around for other scholars who think these arguments are bad and list their reasons?
    Remember when we were talking about Christ Mythers, and I advised you that very few people had bothered to refute them (until recently) because they were ridiculous? It's the same thing here. Folks like JP Holding and Glenn Miller and some of the other apologists referenced here are strictly small-fry, small market interests. Don't get me wrong, they're probably wonderful as people, but they simply don't matter in academics.

    If you want a good, introductory-level analysis of the current state of academics on the historicity of Abraham, check out "Who were the Early Israelites, and Where Did They Come From" by William Dever.

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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    Remember when we were talking about Christ Mythers, and I advised you that very few people had bothered to refute them (until recently) because they were ridiculous? It's the same thing here. Folks like JP Holding and Glenn Miller and some of the other apologists referenced here are strictly small-fry, small market interests. Don't get me wrong, they're probably wonderful as people, but they simply don't matter in academics.
    .
    But they do quote academic sources well. And as for the same thing here, what is this same thing? The domestication of camels or the Historicity of Abraham.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    If you want a good, introductory-level analysis of the current state of academics on the historicity of Abraham, check out "Who were the Early Israelites, and Where Did They Come From" by William Dever.
    I try to get a preview online.
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    But they do quote academic sources well.
    Selectively. Very selectively.

    I try to get a preview online.
    If you have a good local library, this one should be available. It sold well, and is fairly popular.

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    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    If you have a good local library, this one should be available. It sold well, and is fairly popular.
    I dunno if these kinds of books would be in my local library (They would probably have more Caribbean literature)
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    I dunno if these kinds of books would be in my local library (They would probably have more Caribbean literature)
    Ouch. Yeah, I just checked COSTAATT's library ... there ain't much there. :(

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    But they do quote academic sources well. And as for the same thing here, what is this same thing? The domestication of camels or the Historicity of Abraham.



    I try to get a preview online.
    Also, don't ignore or overlook the paper that I recommended on page 2:
    http://moodle.tau.ac.il/pluginfile.p...tion%20ANE.pdf

    I don't know who wrote it, but it is well footnoted and seems to have a good bibliography.

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