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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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What's a good source for learning eschatology?

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  • #16
    For the long (but most thorough) way around, I'd recommend N.T. Wright's "Christian Origins and the Question of God" series.
    Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

    Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

    Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
      For the long (but most thorough) way around, I'd recommend N.T. Wright's "Christian Origins and the Question of God" series.
      I'm slowly working my way through Paul and the Faithfulness of God.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #18
        Here is a good place to begin learning about eschatology:

        https://www.raptureready.com/abc/abc.html
        The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
        Leonard Ravenhill

        https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by theophilus View Post
          Here is a good place to begin learning about eschatology:

          https://www.raptureready.com/abc/abc.html
          Rapture Ready?
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Rapture Ready?
            Of course. Don't you want to be ready for the Rapture?
            The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
            Leonard Ravenhill

            https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by theophilus View Post
              Of course. Don't you want to be ready for the Rapture?
              I want to be ready for the return of Christ. I am highly skeptical of the dispensational pre-trib pre-mill position. Dee Dee Warren, a previous owner here, regularly cited Rapture Ready as a particularly egregious proponent of the view.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                I want to be ready for the return of Christ. I am highly skeptical of the dispensational pre-trib pre-mill position. Dee Dee Warren, a previous owner here, regularly cited Rapture Ready as a particularly egregious proponent of the view.
                Now I'm confused. If you don't believe Jesus is returning to earth to rule (the premil belief), wouldn't you believe in a rapture at some point when Jesus returns to gather the church, if not on the earth then I presume in heaven? Partial preterists still believe that Jesus is returning to gather the church at some point... or am I confused about that too?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  Now I'm confused. If you don't believe Jesus is returning to earth to rule (the premil belief), wouldn't you believe in a rapture at some point when Jesus returns to gather the church, if not on the earth then I presume in heaven? Partial preterists still believe that Jesus is returning to gather the church at some point... or am I confused about that too?
                  That much is true - we wait for the coming of the Lord and the new heavens and earth. What we are skeptical of is the dispensational pre-trib pre-mil scenario with the 7 year trib and the 1000 year millennium with two returns and three resurrections.
                  We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by alaskazimm View Post
                    That much is true - we wait for the coming of the Lord and the new heavens and earth. What we are skeptical of is the dispensational pre-trib pre-mil scenario with the 7 year trib and the 1000 year millennium with two returns and three resurrections.
                    Okay, but what confused me is that theophilus didn't specifically mention pre-trib rapture. He just said rapture. So I"m right that preterists actually do believe in a rapture at some point just not as specifically as pre-tribbers believe. That's actually kind of goofy to be so religiously opposed to it because it's essentially the same belief just a matter of a slightly small detail.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      Okay, but what confused me is that theophilus didn't specifically mention pre-trib rapture. He just said rapture. So I"m right that preterists actually do believe in a rapture at some point just not as specifically as pre-tribbers believe. That's actually kind of goofy to be so religiously opposed to it because it's essentially the same belief just a matter of a slightly small detail.
                      When he is citing "Rapture Ready" it is clear what he means by it.

                      Preterists believe that we will meet the Lord in the sky and escort him the rest of the way down to the earth, which is nearly the opposite of what pre-tribbers believe. Is that a "slightly small detail" IYO?
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        Okay, but what confused me is that theophilus didn't specifically mention pre-trib rapture. He just said rapture. So I"m right that preterists actually do believe in a rapture at some point just not as specifically as pre-tribbers believe. That's actually kind of goofy to be so religiously opposed to it because it's essentially the same belief just a matter of a slightly small detail.
                        When Margaret MacDonald and Edward Irving invented the doctrine in 1830, that was the term they coined for it.
                        When I Survey....

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          When he is citing "Rapture Ready" it is clear what he means by it.

                          Preterists believe that we will meet the Lord in the sky and escort him the rest of the way down to the earth, which is nearly the opposite of what pre-tribbers believe. Is that a "slightly small detail" IYO?
                          Wow, then I'm really confused, because that implies a pre-mil belief.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            Wow, then I'm really confused, because that implies a pre-mil belief.
                            How so? The return of Christ (1 Cor 15:52) is best correlated with Rev. 20:13-21:3, which is after the millenial reign.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              Okay, but what confused me is that theophilus didn't specifically mention pre-trib rapture. He just said rapture.
                              I believe in a pre-trib rapture and that is also the position of the Rapture Ready site.
                              The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
                              Leonard Ravenhill

                              https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Another great source that I highly recommend is the Bible.

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