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Thread: Pope Francis the Rev False Prophet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Can you give me specific examples of the statements by Pope Francis that you find so troubling? You've vaguely alluded to sound bytes, but not actually referenced any concrete instances. If you want to accuse someone of heresy, it'd be a good preliminary step to produce 1. the statement which you claim is heretical and 2. the principle of orthodoxy which it contradicts



    It's not a question many theologians have pondered, but when it comes down to it, I really don't know what alternative position one might advocate. If God has created other beings with free will and intellect and the desire for union with Him and membership in His Church, why wouldn't we baptize them if they asked? Find me another credible theological position that responds to the aliens hypothetical and we can talk



    If you were around some 50 years ago while John XXIII was around or while Vatican II was going on, you'd know that this isn't the first time that the left has been fainting over a pope who they think is finally going to bring the church up to date. The thing is, they didn't understand John XXIII then and don't understand Francis now: they've projected onto him what they want to see without actually paying attention to what he actually believes or says, and the Right is buying into those distortions. If the Left likes him, the Right is duty-bound to deride him, but neither side is actually listening to the man.
    New ecological and economic order pricked my interest being that New World Order conspiracy theorists have always claimed that the final catalyst for this will be a radical global economic restructuring (and as of late, they claim climate change will also be part of this catalyst). I just thought it was an interesting and coincidental parallel with his statement, particularly since he used both subjects in the same context. Heretical is a little extreme. I wouldn't go that far, especially considering I don't really take the subject of the thread that serious... yet. And I most definitely have no interest getting into any long and mundane discussions about anything gay. The subject from a political view bores me to tears.

    The Catholic church always seemed to be at the forefront of demonic belief, even when the protestant church grew lax in that belief. I don't think it would be out of the question to assume demonic activity or a demonic deception if mankind ever encountered intelligent beings claiming to be from another world, especially considering that it is so far removed from any sort of doctrine we can support from the bible. It just seems that he would at least acknowledge the possibility of deception from a theological standpoint somewhere in that hypothetical discussion.

    As far as what you said in the last part of your post... fair enough.

  2. #12
    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    New ecological and economic order pricked my interest being that New World Order conspiracy theorists have always claimed that the final catalyst for this will be a radical global economic restructuring (and as of late, they claim climate change will also be part of this catalyst). I just thought it was an interesting and coincidental parallel with his statement, particularly since he used both subjects in the same context. Heretical is a little extreme. I wouldn't go that far, especially considering I don't really take the subject of the thread that serious... yet. And I most definitely have no interest getting into any long and mundane discussions about anything gay. The subject from a political view bores me to tears.
    Our current economic order is pretty messed up on a number of levels. Anyone with any ideological or moral commitments worth mentioning should probably be open to some sort of restructuring or reform. The truly interesting questions relate to the substance of the proposition, not the simple fact of it. Saying that the antichrist will advocate for some sort of reform or restructuring is a bit like saying that the antichrist will have a nose, or ears, or will use verbal communication.

    The Catholic church always seemed to be at the forefront of demonic belief, even when the protestant church grew lax in that belief. I don't think it would be out of the question to assume demonic activity or a demonic deception if mankind ever encountered intelligent beings claiming to be from another world, especially considering that it is so far removed from any sort of doctrine we can support from the bible. It just seems that he would at least acknowledge the possibility of deception from a theological standpoint somewhere in that hypothetical discussion.
    Has any devil ever consented to being baptized? Before one is baptized, one must profess that one rejects Satan, and all his works, and all his empty promises. If nothing else, holy water tends to be used in exorcisms as well as baptisms, so I don't see what exactly the demons would gain by subjecting themselves to sacraments they have abhorred for the last 2000 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Our current economic order is pretty messed up on a number of levels. Anyone with any ideological or moral commitments worth mentioning should probably be open to some sort of restructuring or reform. The truly interesting questions relate to the substance of the proposition, not the simple fact of it. Saying that the antichrist will advocate for some sort of reform or restructuring is a bit like saying that the antichrist will have a nose, or ears, or will use verbal communication.



    Has any devil ever consented to being baptized? Before one is baptized, one must profess that one rejects Satan, and all his works, and all his empty promises. If nothing else, holy water tends to be used in exorcisms as well as baptisms, so I don't see what exactly the demons would gain by subjecting themselves to sacraments they have abhorred for the last 2000 years.
    If you think the economic order is messed up now, you ain't seen nothing yet. I also never said "antichrist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I'm not one for jumping the gun with trying to identify bible personalities with folks in real-time and I used to hear this many years ago and pretty much shrugged it off as nonsense. But from his acceptance of gay marriage, climate change and aliens, to his call for a "new ecological and economic order," if there was ever a candidate for the false prophet that paves the way for the Beast of Rev, this guy takes the cake.
    Umm
    You know you missed something. Pope Francis had said at one point "Above all Christians must listen to Jesus." Also he does not accept gay marriage, nor does he accept abortion. Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have rightly pointed out that if aliens existed it would be a Christian's duty to evangelize to them. Pope Francis does accept Church law in that gays must be loved welcomed and should be celibate to be sinless. Nice way to read the media. BTW I am Confirmed Catholic not attending mass. I don't agree with the pope on everything but he's not exactly an infallible human. If he wants to believe in aliens or accept the possibility, he can!! It does NOT mean that every Catholic must. As far as clergy, I'm less apt to agree, however, the church at large may have something else in mind and certainly there has been a good celibate clergy whose had issues with sexuality men or women.

    Pope's ok, your just looking to hard for the antichrist.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

  5. Amen robrecht amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    If you think the economic order is messed up now, you ain't seen nothing yet. I also never said "antichrist."
    So I take it you have no more fuel in the tank with respect to Pope Francis being the fulfillment of anything in Revelation?

    I've never really taken much interest in apocalyptic prophecies, but I know enough about them to know that they've never once been right, so I don't feel too bad about not knowing the difference between the false prophet and the antichrist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    So I take it you have no more fuel in the tank with respect to Pope Francis being the fulfillment of anything in Revelation?
    I was never sure about Pope being the False Prophet of Rev. I always thought it was possible even before Francis came on the scene, now I'm swayed just a little more in that direction. I can only imagine the worldwide impact he would have if he started performing verifiable miracles.



    Quote Originally Posted by Catholicity View Post
    Umm
    You know you missed something. Pope Francis had said at one point "Above all Christians must listen to Jesus." Also he does not accept gay marriage, nor does he accept abortion. Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have rightly pointed out that if aliens existed it would be a Christian's duty to evangelize to them. Pope Francis does accept Church law in that gays must be loved welcomed and should be celibate to be sinless. Nice way to read the media. BTW I am Confirmed Catholic not attending mass. I don't agree with the pope on everything but he's not exactly an infallible human. If he wants to believe in aliens or accept the possibility, he can!! It does NOT mean that every Catholic must. As far as clergy, I'm less apt to agree, however, the church at large may have something else in mind and certainly there has been a good celibate clergy whose had issues with sexuality men or women.

    Pope's ok, your just looking to hard for the antichrist.
    I didn't say antichrist. I was more specific. I don't think it's my bent towards my futurist belief more than it's a possible bent towards my doctrinal disagreement of Catholicism and its history in general (no offense).
    Last edited by seanD; 07-09-2015 at 06:14 PM.

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    tWebber Spartacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I was never sure about Pope being the False Prophet of Rev. I always thought it was possible even before Francis came on the scene, now I'm swayed just a little more in that direction. I can only imagine the worldwide impact he would have if he started performing verifiable miracles.

    I didn't say antichrist. I was more specific. I don't think it's my bent towards my futurist belief more than it's a possible bent towards my doctrinal disagreement of Catholicism and its history in general (no offense).
    Pope Francis is, so far as I can tell, entirely orthodox. If people are being led astray, it's by people spinning his words one way or the other. That's quite the false prophet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Pope Francis is, so far as I can tell, entirely orthodox. If people are being led astray, it's by people spinning his words one way or the other. That's quite the false prophet.
    "Orthodox" is an argument in and of itself. I don't consider Catholicism teaching orthodox, in fact, I consider the whole Catholic history an anathema to the true Judeo-Christian faith. So I guess my view really stems from that, which is a whole other subject that would just obfuscate the thread. Francis' (unusual in my view) political and pop cultural platform is just the icing on the cake for me. But I realize you're of the Catholic faith therefore you find the thread absurd. I get it. No point in arguing about it any further.

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    tWebber Pentecost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    "Orthodox" is an argument in and of itself. I don't consider Catholicism teaching orthodox, in fact, I consider the whole Catholic history an anathema to the true Judeo-Christian faith.
    Sean, I have heard the claim that Catholicism is some sort of pre-Incarnation Babylonian cult, (but without any evidence) are you making the same sort of claim? If you are, or even if you're not, will you please explain your position?
    “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentecost View Post
    Sean, I have heard the claim that Catholicism is some sort of pre-Incarnation Babylonian cult, (but without any evidence) are you making the same sort of claim? If you are, or even if you're not, will you please explain your position?
    As you said, I'm sure you've heard the arguments already. It's awash in paganism. Catholics will obviously deny it til they're blue in the face so there's no use in me rehashing the subject.

  12. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.

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