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Pope Francis the Rev False Prophet?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
    So I take it you have no more fuel in the tank with respect to Pope Francis being the fulfillment of anything in Revelation?
    I was never sure about Pope being the False Prophet of Rev. I always thought it was possible even before Francis came on the scene, now I'm swayed just a little more in that direction. I can only imagine the worldwide impact he would have if he started performing verifiable miracles.



    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    Umm
    You know you missed something. Pope Francis had said at one point "Above all Christians must listen to Jesus." Also he does not accept gay marriage, nor does he accept abortion. Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have rightly pointed out that if aliens existed it would be a Christian's duty to evangelize to them. Pope Francis does accept Church law in that gays must be loved welcomed and should be celibate to be sinless. Nice way to read the media. BTW I am Confirmed Catholic not attending mass. I don't agree with the pope on everything but he's not exactly an infallible human. If he wants to believe in aliens or accept the possibility, he can!! It does NOT mean that every Catholic must. As far as clergy, I'm less apt to agree, however, the church at large may have something else in mind and certainly there has been a good celibate clergy whose had issues with sexuality men or women.

    Pope's ok, your just looking to hard for the antichrist.
    I didn't say antichrist. I was more specific. I don't think it's my bent towards my futurist belief more than it's a possible bent towards my doctrinal disagreement of Catholicism and its history in general (no offense).
    Last edited by seanD; 07-09-2015, 12:14 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      I was never sure about Pope being the False Prophet of Rev. I always thought it was possible even before Francis came on the scene, now I'm swayed just a little more in that direction. I can only imagine the worldwide impact he would have if he started performing verifiable miracles.

      I didn't say antichrist. I was more specific. I don't think it's my bent towards my futurist belief more than it's a possible bent towards my doctrinal disagreement of Catholicism and its history in general (no offense).
      Pope Francis is, so far as I can tell, entirely orthodox. If people are being led astray, it's by people spinning his words one way or the other. That's quite the false prophet.
      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
        Pope Francis is, so far as I can tell, entirely orthodox. If people are being led astray, it's by people spinning his words one way or the other. That's quite the false prophet.
        "Orthodox" is an argument in and of itself. I don't consider Catholicism teaching orthodox, in fact, I consider the whole Catholic history an anathema to the true Judeo-Christian faith. So I guess my view really stems from that, which is a whole other subject that would just obfuscate the thread. Francis' (unusual in my view) political and pop cultural platform is just the icing on the cake for me. But I realize you're of the Catholic faith therefore you find the thread absurd. I get it. No point in arguing about it any further.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          "Orthodox" is an argument in and of itself. I don't consider Catholicism teaching orthodox, in fact, I consider the whole Catholic history an anathema to the true Judeo-Christian faith.
          Sean, I have heard the claim that Catholicism is some sort of pre-Incarnation Babylonian cult, (but without any evidence) are you making the same sort of claim? If you are, or even if you're not, will you please explain your position?
          Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
            Sean, I have heard the claim that Catholicism is some sort of pre-Incarnation Babylonian cult, (but without any evidence) are you making the same sort of claim? If you are, or even if you're not, will you please explain your position?
            As you said, I'm sure you've heard the arguments already. It's awash in paganism. Catholics will obviously deny it til they're blue in the face so there's no use in me rehashing the subject.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              As you said, I'm sure you've heard the arguments already. It's awash in paganism. Catholics will obviously deny it til they're blue in the face so there's no use in me rehashing the subject.
              Deny until we're blue in the face, laugh until we're blue in the face... what's the difference, really?

              Undoubtedly your beliefs about Catholicism as a whole are about as based in documented fact as your beliefs about what Pope Francis has said and done.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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              • #22
                I actually haven't heard the arguments. I was only briefly exposed to the idea by my friend's father (who holds to it), and the topic changed. I think Chick Tracts are somehow involved from skimming another thread. I am not looking for a debate, so a link would be just as good to me as you explaining it yourself. I am inclined against the idea, but if it's true, I want to know about it.
                Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                  I actually haven't heard the arguments. I was only briefly exposed to the idea by my friend's father (who holds to it), and the topic changed. I think Chick Tracts are somehow involved from skimming another thread. I am not looking for a debate, so a link would be just as good to me as you explaining it yourself. I am inclined against the idea, but if it's true, I want to know about it.
                  A general rule of thumb is that if there is some Christian tradition not found in scripture, or even contradicted by scripture, it has pagan roots. This type of external tradition is rife in the Catholic church. But I couldn't give you just one link because the subject requires very extensive study, including a large variety of sources. It also is a very confusing subject, as it's been almost entirely obfuscated by internet Jesus mysticists who confuse the Judeo-Christian faith of the first century and the amalgamation of religious influence outside of New Testament scripture that occurred in the later centuries.

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                  • #24
                    Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail against the church. Since Catholicism was basically the only game in town for awhile, if Catholicism is apostasy, then the gates of hell would have prevailed.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      A general rule of thumb is that if there is some Christian tradition not found in scripture, or even contradicted by scripture, it has pagan roots. This type of external tradition is rife in the Catholic church. But I couldn't give you just one link because the subject requires very extensive study, including a large variety of sources. It also is a very confusing subject, as it's been almost entirely obfuscated by internet Jesus mysticists who confuse the Judeo-Christian faith of the first century and the amalgamation of religious influence outside of New Testament scripture that occurred in the later centuries.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                      • #26
                        There are things in Catholicism that I disagree with, and much with which I agree in Luther's early theology, but it seems to me he went off the deep end rather quickly with his apocalyptic expectations and specific identifications of the Pope and others as figures prophesied in the Book of Revelation.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                        • #27
                          Okay Sean, thanks for that brief explanation.

                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail against the church. Since Catholicism was basically the only game in town for awhile, if Catholicism is apostasy, then the gates of hell would have prevailed.
                          And that's been my understanding, but I like learning alternative view points to try and discover if I've been wrong about something.
                          Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                            There are things in Catholicism that I disagree with, and much with which I agree in Luther's early theology, but it seems to me he went off the deep end rather quickly with his apocalyptic expectations and specific identifications of the Pope and others as figures prophesied in the Book of Revelation.
                            Not to derail the thread - but I have observed similar phenomena, even in my own life, where seemingly the deeper one plunges into theological study and devotion, the seemingly increasingly neurotic, one becomes. Why do you think this is? How ought we guard against this?

                            Mods - perhaps we can start a new thread on this very topic.

                            Thanks.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                              Not to derail the thread - but I have observed similar phenomena, even in my own life, where seemingly the deeper one plunges into theological study and devotion, the seemingly increasingly neurotic, one becomes. Why do you think this is? How ought we guard against this?

                              Mods - perhaps we can start a new thread on this very topic.

                              Thanks.
                              If you want to start a thread on a topic, go ahead and do so. Just make sure you follow the rules(like where it should be posted, if you're not sure, ask a mod). In a case like this it's much better for you to go ahead and do this yourself. The mods here are all volunteer workers, and unless there is a serious derail it's best if threads are started by individual members.

                              I'm not speaking in a mod capacity right now FYI. Mostly just a friendly heads up.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail against the church. Since Catholicism was basically the only game in town for awhile, if Catholicism is apostasy, then the gates of hell would have prevailed.
                                He also said that a house divided will not stand. Obviously protestantism broke away from the Catholic church for a reason, and God allowed it to happen. So maybe it becomes necessary to decide which house is the true church Christ was referring to. I doubt he was referring to a divided house because then it becomes a contradiction.

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