Originally posted by shunyadragon
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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The LDS Church and Interracial Marriage.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. As the Mormons attempt to deal with their racist past, the official Mormon website claims there was no "church wide policy of segregation".
The "defense" of their racism is that the Mormon Church was started at a time when racism was quite prevalent - kind of an "everybody's doing it" argument. The problem with that is that the Mormon Church was SUPPOSEDLY restored by God directly through Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, yet the Mormon Church was no better than, and arguably worse than, other Churches at the time with regards to racism.
(Sorry, Doctrine Matters, I hadn't read your post.)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
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Originally posted by Apocalypticsights View PostGod made white people white, and black people black. He did not create us differently so that we could intermingle and destroy his divine plan for races. Its no different from a man with a woman. A man is supposed to be with a woman and not with another man. We can not change whether that is right or wrong by attempting to change the ethics behind it.
How can you possibly see a man being with a man, or a woman being with a woman as on par with a white man being with a black woman, or vice versa? These things are not connected in any real logical way. Those of different races are all human, and when a man and woman come together are able to produce offspring unless there is a physical defect. This is not true of homosexual relationships, and without some not yet invented medical technique is impossible. It might not be even possible to do so even with major scientific advances. Besides, the "races" are really arbitrary distinctions based on outward appearance.
Acts 17:26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile*, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
*This would have encompassed all "races" that people speak about today. Said distinction is meaningless now because of the work of Christ.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostOkay, so you're a racist, an adulterer, and you think you have a "good idea" of when the end times will be? That's quite the combination.
How can you possibly see a man being with a man, or a woman being with a woman as on par with a white man being with a black woman, or vice versa? These things are not connected in any real logical way. Those of different races are all human, and when a man and woman come together are able to produce offspring unless there is a physical defect. This is not true of homosexual relationships, and without some not yet invented medical technique is impossible. It might not be even possible to do so even with major scientific advances. Besides, the "races" are really arbitrary distinctions based on outward appearance.
Acts 17:26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile*, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
*This would have encompassed all "races" that people speak about today. Said distinction is meaningless now because of the work of Christ.
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Originally posted by Doctrine Matters View PostThe new Mormon face is to appease the general public. They would like to forget their arch-racist past. Forget that the Book of Mormon still teaches that dark skin is the result of sin (which it does)
Now that they are moving into Africa, in their quest to gain more numbers for their membership stats, they have to put on another face - that of tolerance, love for blacks and others with darker skins, etc. It's all really a performance. In our area the hispanics never cease complaining about the discrimination they suffer at the hands of Mormons.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Apocalypticsights View PostGod made white people white, and black people black. He did not create us differently so that we could intermingle and destroy his divine plan for races. Its no different from a man with a woman. A man is supposed to be with a woman and not with another man. We can not change whether that is right or wrong by attempting to change the ethics behind it.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Apocalypticsights View PostWhat color was Moses
2af4bd043a34eb985e30c20822aab441.jpg
While archaeology shows that people from Cush looked like this:
Did this have to do with slavery or not?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Apocalypticsights View PostBy your logic, wouldn't the term "man" and "woman" be arbitrary distinctions? After all, it says "there is neither male and female". Do we take that literally? What about the man and the woman who can not have children due to genetic defect? Are they homosexual and is this a sin in the eyes of the Lord? Is it all about reproducing?
Seriously? These are your questions? The verses in question are about spiritual equality in Christ. The Bible also teaches that all of mankind ultimately comes from Adam, so there is only one real race to begin with, the human race. Jews and Gentiles were mainly separated by religion. Anyone who wanted to could come and be a part of God's covenant. Ruth comes to mind.
Procreation is one of the primary purposes of marriage, and what the sex act is designed for. People who have a physical or genetic defect would be different than those who are actually homosexual. Anyone with half a brain can see that.
What it's about is God's created order, and since God made all nations from one man, all people on the planet are equally human. God did make man and woman to be physically different, and so that their bodies work together towards the purpose of reproduction. This works regardless of "race", but does not with regards to same sex activities. A genetic defect is different from having the wrong "equipment" entirely. Besides, you can have a genetic defect, and never find out about it(in fact, all of us have some mutations). Only recently is it even possible to find out. It's not something you can just look at the person and see. That's not true in around 99% cases with regards to what sex a person is.
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