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Surgical Strikes vs. Obamacare

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    So, the entire thread is about vague dissatisfaction with no basis in facts, actual information, or substantial content?

    Got it!
    Actually, I was hoping somebody could prove me wrong. I'm really frustrated with Washington thinking they can "solve" things by spending billions of dollars on inefficiency and incompetence. Which is why, in the OP, I called it a "rant".
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Why couldn't the healthcare "solution" be more of a "surgical strike" than a nuclear war?

    OK, that's my rant for today.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Sometimes things are so broken you have to burn them down and rebuild them.

      (If you were doing this, the ACA isn't the way to go about this. The reason why US healthcare is so expensive is because the lack of organisational purchasing power leading to an inability to drive prices down. Nuke it from orbit, nationalise it.)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Actually, I was hoping somebody could prove me wrong. I'm really frustrated with Washington thinking they can "solve" things by spending billions of dollars on inefficiency and incompetence. Which is why, in the OP, I called it a "rant".
        Rant. Hmmm does that mean a verbal or written expression of "vague dissatisfaction with no basis in facts, actual information, or substantial content?"

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Chrs View Post
          Sometimes things are so broken you have to burn them down and rebuild them.
          That's the impression I've gotten.

          (If you were doing this, the ACA isn't the way to go about this. The reason why US healthcare is so expensive is because the lack of organisational purchasing power leading to an inability to drive prices down. Nuke it from orbit, nationalise it.)
          As much as I hate to admit it, that would probably have been better than what we have.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Outis View Post
            Rant. Hmmm does that mean a verbal or written expression of "vague dissatisfaction with no basis in facts, actual information, or substantial content?"
            VAGUE dissatisfaction? How bout the now infamous lie "if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, PERIOD.... if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor... PERIOD".

            If this was such a good "fix", why was there so much deception needed to sell it? ("we'll have to vote on the plan to see what's in the plan") And why is support for it dwindling so badly? (yeah, I know -- it's Fox News' fault)
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              As much as I hate to admit it, that would probably have been better than what we have.
              I concur. But then again, nobody in Washington is asking our opinions.

              Comment


              • #37
                It would have been better than what you had in the US before the ACA, especially if you're not on the right side of the poverty line.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Outis View Post
                  I concur. But then again, nobody in Washington is asking our opinions.
                  Quite honestly, Outis --- part of my rant is in hopes of learning I'm WRONG about the size of the problem. In FACT, in researching to answer your posts, I've found some good material you could have used to support YOUR position.

                  Overall, however, I still see this as a horrible "fix", attested to in part by the fact that Democrats up for reelection are now running AWAY from Obamacare, in spite of Pelosi's admonition to "stand tall" and embrace it.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                    It would have been better than what you had in the US before the ACA, especially if you're not on the right side of the poverty line.
                    I fully agree that things needed to change... one of those things would have been the ability to purchase insurance across state lines. Another would have been a form of tort reform, but the liberals are beholden to the lawyers.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      VAGUE dissatisfaction? How bout the now infamous lie "if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, PERIOD.... if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor... PERIOD".
                      I would object to calling it a "lie" the first time, if we use TWeb's definition of "lying." Of course, that was what he was planning. Plans don't always work.

                      Any repetition of the claim after ACA was passed and that part of the impact known? Oh, yeah. Full-fledged four-Pinocchio rating for that one.

                      If this was such a good "fix", why was there so much deception needed to sell it?
                      There was, and is, plenty of deception on both sides of the aisle on this issue. Believe it or not, I am trying (on other venues) to correct the deception on the Democrat side of the fence. I figure that's a good place to start: if I want to criticize a neighbor's porch, I'd probably better check my own, and sweep where necessary.

                      And why is support for it dwindling so badly?
                      Some don't like it because they feel it goes too far. Some don't like it because they feel it doesn't go far enough. You have to look at _why_ people disapprove of it to get an accurate picture.

                      (yeah, I know -- it's Fox News' fault)
                      Hey, if the shoe fits....

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I fully agree that things needed to change... one of those things would have been the ability to purchase insurance across state lines.
                        That's covered in one of the links I sent you.

                        Another would have been a form of tort reform, but the liberals are beholden to the lawyers.
                        And conservatives aren't?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Outis View Post
                          I would object to calling it a "lie" the first time, if we use TWeb's definition of "lying." Of course, that was what he was planning. Plans don't always work.
                          I know what you're saying, but I really believe he knew, or SHOULD have known. On the other hand, it's total incompetence to fail to anticipate this "unintended consequence".

                          Any repetition of the claim after ACA was passed and that part of the impact known? Oh, yeah. Full-fledged four-Pinocchio rating for that one.
                          OK, chalk it up to "gross incompetence", then, from somebody who's resume' is simply "community organizer".

                          There was, and is, plenty of deception on both sides of the aisle on this issue.
                          Absolutely!

                          Believe it or not, I am trying (on other venues) to correct the deception on the Democrat side of the fence. I figure that's a good place to start: if I want to criticize a neighbor's porch, I'd probably better check my own, and sweep where necessary.
                          I've been on a letter writing campaign to my REPUBLICAN legislators, and am most probably going to re-register as an independent.

                          Some don't like it because they feel it goes too far. Some don't like it because they feel it doesn't go far enough. You have to look at _why_ people disapprove of it to get an accurate picture.
                          Well, gee, perhaps it would have been better to implement the parts both parties AGREED on first, instead of this massive pile of horsie poo being dumped on the public.

                          Hey, if the shoe fits....
                          I quit watching Fox -- it just makes me mad. And I'm cancelling my SiriusXM so I can't listen to it in the car, either. And LONG ago stopped listening to Rush!

                          Seriously, though, those who blame Fox for this big turnaround of support for Obamacare really give Fox a LOT of credit, given that the MSM was backing it 100%.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Quite honestly, Outis --- part of my rant is in hopes of learning I'm WRONG about the size of the problem. In FACT, in researching to answer your posts, I've found some good material you could have used to support YOUR position.
                            Meh. I'm one of the folks who can support the ACA only by holding my nose. Frankly, the ACA stinks. _But_ it's definitely better than what we had before, and it is better than just about all of the alternative suggestions I've researched.

                            I would love to whole-heartedly support single-payer ... but I can't. A single-payer plan basically guts the entire insurance industry. While I have no particular desire to hold onto an industry just because it's established (I didn't vote for buggy whip subsidies either), that's going to have an economic impact. I've yet to see any kind of economic projections for what will happen if that sector of industry is eliminated.

                            As far as I'm concerned, looking for a solution is a choice between a lot of really bad options. Something needed to be done. The ACA was not a good thing to do. BUt it was better than doing nothing, and better than most of the alternatives.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Outis View Post
                              And conservatives aren't?
                              Not nearly.... Trial Lawyers overwhelmingly support Democrats
                              [cite]
                              Over all, trial lawyers raised $2.7 million in soft money donations for Democrats in 1999, of a total of $49.4 million in soft dollars raised so far by the party, according to a recent report from Common Cause, a Washington nonprofit group. (By contrast, the Republicans got $2,800 in soft money from trial lawyers, Common Cause reported, of $57.8 million in soft dollars over all.)

                              The Democratic haul was more than double the $1.12 million in soft money donations from trial lawyers in 1995, the year prior to the last presidential race. And, the largest portion of the 1999 money, $1.65 million, went to a Democratic Party committee supporting Congressional candidates, reflecting the view of many trial lawyers that a Democratically controlled House could halt tort reform.[/cite]

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/23/us...ts-chests.html
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Not nearly.... Trial Lawyers overwhelmingly support Democrats
                                [cite]
                                Over all, trial lawyers raised $2.7 million in soft money donations for Democrats in 1999, of a total of $49.4 million in soft dollars raised so far by the party, according to a recent report from Common Cause, a Washington nonprofit group. (By contrast, the Republicans got $2,800 in soft money from trial lawyers, Common Cause reported, of $57.8 million in soft dollars over all.)

                                The Democratic haul was more than double the $1.12 million in soft money donations from trial lawyers in 1995, the year prior to the last presidential race. And, the largest portion of the 1999 money, $1.65 million, went to a Democratic Party committee supporting Congressional candidates, reflecting the view of many trial lawyers that a Democratically controlled House could halt tort reform.[/cite]

                                http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/23/us...ts-chests.html
                                That's from a long time ago, CP, and the political landscape can change rapidly. Got anything more recent?

                                Comment

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