Faroe Islanders massacre hundreds of whales

[Jedidiah]

I don't remember discussing the morning after pill with anybody, so I don't know why you have included me in this group.

I too have not commented, to my recollection, on the morning after pill.

[Jedidiah]

I think so. I also seem to recall Jedidiah saying that he believes it's an abortifacient.

I did think that it was an abortifactant from what information I had at the time. I could be wrong about that particular word.

[Jedidiah]

Everyone dies at some point but there is a difference between natural death and targeting something for termination. Surely you know this. You're not going to be charged with murder if your close relative passed away in their sleep. You will be though if you took a knife to them and stabbed them to death.

Much better phrased than my own response to that dumb comment.

[whag]

Everyone dies at some point but there is a difference between natural death and targeting something for termination.

You missed the context to whip out boilerplate prolife apologetics talking points? Go back and tell me what I meant by that with respect to teleology.

Surely you know this.
You're not going to be charged with murder if your close relative passed away in their sleep. You will be though if you took a knife to them and stabbed them to death.

Stop pretending a 1:1 relationship between murderously stabbing someone to death and the morning after pill in the case of rape. Most prolifers are hesitant to call abortion murder.

EDIT:

Thought I would post this link since it is relevant to the discussion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...perts-say.html

I'll read this and get back to you.

[whag]

That isn't "science" that has determined it is okay to use but society.

I meant if the science shows that it only slows sperm motility rather than prevents the implantation of a fertilized egg, then it should be "okay" to prolifers to use plan B.

[Jedidiah]

I meant if the science shows that it only slows sperm motility rather than prevents the implantation of a fertilized egg, then it should be "okay" to prolifers to use plan B.

Is that indeed the case?

[Darth Ovious]

You missed the context to whip out boilerplate prolife apologetics talking points? Go back and tell me what I meant by that with respect to teleology.

Went back and re-read it and I don't see a problem with my reply. Jed said that it was just different stages of development and you replied to that by talking about "natural abortion" which is actually a misnomer since the term abortion means to deliberately target something to end. It's like calling a PC a natural construct, it doesn't make sense since a PC is built by design and is not natural in any way.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abort?s=t

Stop pretending a 1:1 relationship between murderously stabbing someone to death and the morning after pill in the case of rape. Most pro-lifers are hesitant to call abortion murder.

I don't care what most pro-lifers think. An appeal to popularity is not an argument. Would it be more accurate to compare the morning after pill to poisoning someone with a drug instead then?

Also I've noticed that you've switched your argument to something more easily defensible. There is a problem in doing that. Even if you were correct to say that the morning after pill in the case of rape was morally acceptable (and I'm not saying you are correct), then you would only be correct about those specific cases. It is then fallacious to extrapolate that case onto other cases of abortion and claim this as proof that abortion all in all is OK. You would still need to show that abortion at the 24 week mark was still acceptable and you have not done that.

Also wherever you draw the line. Anything else other than the exact mark of the legal requirement for abortion, which I believe is 26 weeks in America and 24 weeks in the UK is a call for activism for you to change it. Assuming you are American, if you believe that a fetus is a viable life before the 26 week mark then you would need to advocate to change the law to before then since anything after that you would have to consider murder and if you believe that a fetus does not become a viable life after that mark then you need to advocate to change it later since you believe that it would be oppressing women and they have the right to choose to terminate up to the point you determine.

[fm93]

I did think that it was an abortifactant from what information I had at the time. I could be wrong about that particular word.

An abortifacient causes a pregnancy to be terminated. Plan B prevents a pregnancy from occurring.

[RumTumTugger]

An abortifacient causes a pregnancy to be terminated. Plan B prevents a pregnancy from occurring.

Does is destroy an already fertilized egg or not?

[mossrose]

Does is destroy an already fertilized egg or not?

I hardly think it would be needed if that wasn't the case.

[fm93]

Does is destroy an already fertilized egg or not?

It inhibits ovulation, which means there's no egg to be fertilized. So no.

But even if it did, it still wouldn't qualify as an abortifacient. If what you oppose includes even the blocking of implantation in the uterus, then you by definition are not opposing abortion in that instance.

[whag]

It inhibits ovulation, which means there's no egg to be fertilized. So no.

But even if it did, it still wouldn't qualify as an abortifacient. If what you oppose includes even the blocking of implantation in the uterus, then you by definition are not opposing abortion in that instance.

Good point. Actually, all prolifers must be against many kinds of artificial birth control. Just look at what their support of artificial birth control must necessarily be limited to:

BIRTH CONTROL METHODS THAT DON'T CAUSE ABORTION

Continuous Abstinence - The only method that is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy and disease.

Surgical Sterilization (Tubal Ligation or Vasectomy) - Permanent surgical methods of birth control. Tubal ligations prevent a woman's eggs from reaching her uterus. Vasectomies prevent sperm from entering a woman during intercourse. The estimated failure rate is less than 1%.*

The Male Condom - Prevents sperm from reaching the egg. The estimated failure rate is 11-16%.*

Diaphragm - A shallow latex cup that prevents sperm from reaching the egg, requires a visit with your health care provider for proper fitting. The estimated failure rate is 15%.*

The Female Condom - Worn by the woman, prevents sperm from reaching the egg. The estimated failure rate is 20%.*

Cervical Cap - A thimble-shaped latex cup that prevents sperm from reaching the egg. The estimated failure rate is 14-29%.**

Periodic Abstinence or Fertility Awareness Methods - Being abstinent on the days you may be fertile or using a "barrier" method of birth control (condoms, diaphragms, or cervical caps) on fertile days. Though the US Department of Health and Human Services lists a relatively high failure rate (25%*), other scientific bodies indicate that when used correctly, the failure rate can be less than 1%.*** Because fertility awareness requires more time and engagement than other methods, "perfect use" is harder to achieve.

BIRTH CONTROL METHODS THAT MIGHT CAUSE ABORTION

Intrauterine Device (IUD) - A small device shaped in the form of a "T" that is placed inside the uterus by a health care provider. It works to prevent fertilization by keeping sperm from entering the fallopian tubes and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is less than 1%.*

Depo-Provera - Hormones delivered through injections, or shots, in the buttocks or arm every three months. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is less than 1%.*

Oral Contraceptives (Birth Control Pills) - Delivers hormones orally through a daily pill that prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*

The Patch (Ortho Evra) - Hormones delivered through a skin patch worn on the lower abdomen, buttocks, or upper body. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*

The Hormonal Vaginal Contraceptive Ring (NuvaRing) - Hormones delivered through a ring that is inserted into the vagina for three weeks at a time. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*

Emergency Contraception ("Morning After" Pill, Postcoital Contraception, Plan B, etc.) - Delivers hormones orally through a high-dosage pill that prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 1%.*
Among those who are ideologically opposed to abortion, there is much debate about whether hormone-based birth control methods can result in an abortion. The point of contention centers on the question of whether or not the thinning of the uterine lining is sufficient to prevent implantation. If you go to the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists website, you will find two different position papers on this subject. One portion of their membership believes that birth control pills are abortifacient, and the other portion believes that, while the condition of the uterus is altered, it does not thereby prevent implantation.

*Department of Health & Human Services. "Birth Control Methods," http://www.womenshealth.gov/publicat...ol-methods.pdf (Nov 21, 2011).
**Planned Parenthood. "Cervical Cap (FemCap)," http://www.plannedparenthood.org/hea...-cap-20487.htm (2011).
***ScienceDaily. "Natural Family Planning Method As Effective As Contraceptive Pill, New Research Finds," http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0221065200.htm (Feb 21, 2007).

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_fact...ause_abortion/

ETA: This would mean the extent of the holocaust they describe is actually far worse.

[Jedidiah]

An abortifacient causes a pregnancy to be terminated. Plan B prevents a pregnancy from occurring.

Note that I was referring to the particular word, that is "abortifactant." My understanding was that Plan B was intended to prevent implantation, but sometimes it worked by destroying a newly implanted fertilized egg. If that is the case it is sometimes an abortifactant. Regardless it is wanton destruction of a human being at the beginning of it's development. I was as I said speaking only to the specific word. I did ask about that but so far no response.