Originally posted by Apocalypticsights
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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The Decline of Mormonism
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Originally posted by Apocalypticsights View PostPlease knock off with the cult references. Mormonism is not a cult.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI do believe the 'cult' word is more like a 'stone' to throw at others who believe differently, but that does not face up to some of the real issues with the LDS church and reality.
Cow Poke wrote: One of the key factors of determining the status is extra biblical revelation - of which Mormonism is made primarily.
Cow Poke has a tendency to throw criticisms at Mormonism, without realizing that those same criticisms are valid against his own faith.
The New Testament was "extrabiblical revelation", when looking at the Old Testament as the canon of scripture.
-7up
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostGerhard May does so by suppressing or waving away contrary data.
In fact, those in the early centuries who claimed that God created out of formless matter (Philo, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria) were heavily influenced by Platonism (which held precisely that).
Copan got destroyed by Blake Ostler in their debate:
http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectiv...rmon-challenge
Plus, that very same passage in 2 Maccabbees was CLEARLY not Ex nihilo in the way that modern Christians think of it; Do you believe that a fetus in the womb is literally created from nothing? No, it isn't. (or if you think Adam was created from nothing... wrong, he was created "from the dust" of the earth.
This video describes the facts extensively; and at 10:20, specifically addressed Copan's utter failure at even bothering to look at the context and usage of the text in 2 Maccabbees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhWaeyEPlAw
-7up
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostCow Poke wrote: One of the key factors of determining the status is extra biblical revelation - of which Mormonism is made primarily.
Cow Poke has a tendency to throw criticisms at Mormonism, without realizing that those same criticisms are valid against his own faith.
The New Testament was "extrabiblical revelation", when looking at the Old Testament as the canon of scripture.
-7upThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostCopan got destroyed by Blake Ostler in their debate:
http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectiv...rmon-challenge
Plus, that very same passage in 2 Maccabbees was CLEARLY not Ex nihilo in the way that modern Christians think of it; Do you believe that a fetus in the womb is literally created from nothing? No, it isn't. (or if you think Adam was created from nothing... wrong, he was created "from the dust" of the earth.
This video describes the facts extensively; and at 10:20, specifically addressed Copan's utter failure at even bothering to look at the context and usage of the text in 2 Maccabbees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhWaeyEPlAwVeritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostCopan got destroyed by Blake OstlerThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostCopan got destroyed by Blake Ostler in their debate:
http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectiv...rmon-challenge
No, no one was destroyed in this response.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostChristianity is also a "cult" based on the same definitions that anti-Mormons like to use; they just don't realize it.
Cow Poke wrote: One of the key factors of determining the status is extra biblical revelation - of which Mormonism is made primarily.
Cow Poke has a tendency to throw criticisms at Mormonism, without realizing that those same criticisms are valid against his own faith.
The New Testament was "extrabiblical revelation", when looking at the Old Testament as the canon of scripture.
-7up
I consider the lack of evidence for the historical context of the Book of Moron to be more problematic, than the New Testament. There is insufficient evidence that the Book of Mormon was set in known history and archeology of the Americas.
There is a basis for accusing them all as manmade "cults" but I do not go there as the extreme skeptics claim.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-24-2015, 10:34 AM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCow Poke fully realizes some of the same criticisms can be made against Christianity by unbelievers, but, unlike Mormonism, Christianity wasn't founded on a fraud and a false prophet.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSure, but you don't predate the New Testament, do you?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd the BoM falsely claims to be "another testament" of Jesus, when it is, in fact, a fictional and deceptive work by a false prophet.
-7up
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostThis is your biased opinion.
Irrelevant, you missed the point. The New Testament is considered by Jews to be "extra-biblical". That doesn't stop you from believing in it.
2) I'm a New Testament Christian
C) Saul, based on Jewish teachings, tried to destroy Christianity, only to become one of its greatest proponents
Again ... that is like ... your opinion ... dude.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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It has been reported, "Smith asked which religious sect he should join and was told to join none of them because all existing religions had corrupted the teachings of Jesus Christ.". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostIt has been reported, "Smith asked which religious sect he should join and was told to join none of them because all existing religions had corrupted the teachings of Jesus Christ."
It's all about Smith.
Christianity is all about Jesus, buried, crucified and risen again.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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It should be noted that Smith accused other Christians of not being genuine Christianity in the first place. And then they cry when non-Mormon Christians say they [Mormons] are not Christians. And of course they're not. And the sad part is they [Mormons] do not know why.Last edited by 37818; 01-01-2016, 04:54 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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