Trinity: a syncretization of pagan Polytheism and Jewish Monotheism.

[Cal_Minian]

Church Fathers attribute the Trinity to a mixture of Pagan and Jewish teachings.

Gregory of Nyssa - Oratio Catechetica 3 PG 45, 17 D-20 A

Gregory of Nyssa, Last of the great Cappadocians and brother of Basil of Caesarea, was bishop of Nyssa in 372. Gregory states that "Orthodox" doctrine is a combination or syncretizatation of Jewish monotheism and Pagan polytheism:

"the truth passes in the mean between these two conceptions, destroying each heresy, and yet, accepting what is useful to it from each. The Jewish dogma is destroyed by the acceptance of the Word and by the belief in the Spirit, while the polytheistic error of the Greek school is made to vanish by the unity of the nature abrogating this imagination of plurality."

John of Damascus - De Fide Orth. I, 7 PG 94, 808 A


John of Damascus, who followed Gregory of Nazianzus agrees that "Christianity" takes what s best in Judaism and paganism:

"On the one hand, of the Jewish idea we have the unity of God's nature, and, on the other, of the Greek, we have the distinction of hypostases, and that only."

[ApologiaPhoenix]

hmmmm. I'm wondering how this is supposed to bother me. I just want to see the answer to the question, "Is the Trinity true?" I don't see this addressing that in any way.

[Cal_Minian]

hmmmm. I'm wondering how this is supposed to bother me. I just want to see the answer to the question, "Is the Trinity true?" I don't see this addressing that in any way.

IC

So you do not have a problem if the origin of the Trinity doctrine is the combining of the monotheism of the Jews with the doctrine of multiple persons in a being of pagans?

Really?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

IC

So you do not have a problem if the origin of the Trinity doctrine is the combining of the monotheism of the Jews with the doctrine of multiple persons in a being of pagans?

Really?

I always have only one first question Cal. Is it true?

And by the way, what pagan god was a trinity? Could you please point to him?

[Cal_Minian]

I always have only one first question Cal. Is it true?

And by the way, what pagan god was a trinity? Could you please point to him?

Dear ApologiaNick,

Q. Is it True?
A. I have quoted Fathers of the Trinity doctrine who are very much respected by Trinitarians for their belief. They were there and they say it was true.

Q. What pagan god was the trinity?
A. You don't appear to understand the term syncretization. It is a mixture or blending of two beliefs. Therefore there is no need to show a pagan God that is the Trinity. That is the point. It is a mixture of Jewish and Pagan beliefs that ORIGINATED the Trinity.

At that point Christianity became Pagan.

If you saw a piece of candy in the gutter, would you put it in your mouth?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

No. I don't care about where they say it originated from. I care about if the idea itself is true. That's what you haven't touched.

Also, in post 3, you spoke about the idea of multiple persons in a being of pagans. Could you please show where the pagans had the idea of multiple persons in a being?

By the way, I don't consider Greek thought the gutter. I think much of it is quite excellent.

[Cal_Minian]

No. I don't care about where they say it originated from. I care about if the idea itself is true. That's what you haven't touched.

Also, in post 3, you spoke about the idea of multiple persons in a being of pagans. Could you please show where the pagans had the idea of multiple persons in a being?

By the way, I don't consider Greek thought the gutter. I think much of it is quite excellent.

The Greeks were polytheists and these Trinitarian Fathers provide the proof. The "distinction of hypostases" is what came from the Greeks. That is what they said. They are quite clear. The Monotheism is from the Jews and the Polytheism of the Greeks is blended by the "distinction of hypostases."

Another example is the Hindu Trimurti who was considered to be one God but multple persons.

However the one that pertains to Trinitarians are the concepts blended by the two Fathers I quoted.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

The Greeks were polytheists and these Trinitarian Fathers provide the proof. The "distinction of hypostases" is what came from the Greeks. That is what they said. They are quite clear. The Monotheism is from the Jews and the Polytheism of the Greeks is blended by the "distinction of hypostases."

Another example is the Hindu Trimurti who was considered to be one God but multple persons.

However the one that pertains to Trinitarians are the concepts blended by the two Fathers I quoted.

lol. QUite amusing Cal. Quite amusing. I'm wondering if you've ever read any of the great Greek thinkers. They didn't give much credit to the "gods" of Greek thought. In fact, you could read some Platonic passages speaking about "the Good" and put in "God" and it makes perfect sense.

By the way, the Hindu "Trinity" has one evil force and one good force also. Hardly a parallel. lol.

[Cal_Minian]

lol. QUite amusing Cal. Quite amusing. I'm wondering if you've ever read any of the great Greek thinkers. They didn't give much credit to the "gods" of Greek thought. In fact, you could read some Platonic passages speaking about "the Good" and put in "God" and it makes perfect sense.

By the way, the Hindu "Trinity" has one evil force and one good force also. Hardly a parallel. lol.

Dear ApologiaNick,
You have not addressed my answer to your question which links the pagan polytheism to the Trinity. The "distinction of hypostasis."

Do you concede my point. You did not think I would miss the fact that you evaded this, do you? I did not just fall off the turnip truck you know.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Dear ApologiaNick,
You have not addressed my answer to your question which links the pagan polytheism to the Trinity. The "distinction of hypostasis."

Do you concede my point. You did not think I would miss the fact that you evaded this, do you? I did not just fall off the turnip truck you know.

I see the point as irrelevant until the one question is answered, "Is it true?"

Until then, we're just engaging in a genetic fallacy.

Now tell me, have you really read any of Plato or Aristotle or any of the other great Greek thinkers?

[Cal_Minian]

I see the point as irrelevant until the one question is answered, "Is it true?"

Until then, we're just engaging in a genetic fallacy.

Now tell me, have you really read any of Plato or Aristotle or any of the other great Greek thinkers?

You asked me for the "smoking gun" which tied the Polytheism of the Pagans to the Trinity and I provided it. Now that I have provided it you are back to, so what, is it true or not?

You could at least admit that I provided the requested proof instead of dodging it.

If it was not important then why did you ask it as if it was?

Stumped.... hrmmmmmm?

[ApologiaPhoenix]

You asked me for the "smoking gun" which tied the Polytheism of the Pagans to the Trinity and I provided it. Now that I have provided it you are back to, so what, is it true or not?

You could at least admit that I provided the requested proof instead of dodging it.

If it was not important then why did you ask it as if it was?

Stumped.... hrmmmmmm?

No. That's not what I asked for. I asked for the pagan Trinity. It's something you still haven't provided.

I'm still on my old question and now I have a new one.

Oh. Don't try to play Dr. Phil with me also. It doesn't work.

[Cal_Minian]

No. That's not what I asked for. I asked for the pagan Trinity. It's something you still haven't provided.

I'm still on my old question and now I have a new one.

Oh. Don't try to play Dr. Phil with me also. It doesn't work.

And again I tell you what I said before. The Fathers I quoted do not say that the Trinity was adopted en toto from pagans. They state that Jewish monotheism (which they consider heresy) was combined with Pagan Polytheism to form the Trinity. They rationalize the Polytheism with the "distinction of hypostatis" which they say also came from the Pagan Greeks.

So your request to show a pagan Trinity which was adopted by Trinitarians is a straw man argument. That is not what the Fathers taught and not my point at all.

Please deal with my arguments, not a straw man which you feel you can defeat.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

And again I tell you what I said before. The Fathers I quoted do not say that the Trinity was adopted en toto from pagans. They state that Jewish monotheism (which they consider heresy) was combined with Pagan Polytheism to form the Trinity. They rationalize the Polytheism with the "distinction of hypostatis" which they say also came from the Pagan Greeks.

So your request to show a pagan Trinity which was adopted by Trinitarians is a straw man argument. That is not what the Fathers taught and not my point at all.

Please deal with my arguments, not a straw man which you feel you can defeat.

Genetic fallacy Cal. My questions still remain.

Is it true?

Have you really read any of the Greek thinkers?

[Cal_Minian]

Genetic fallacy Cal. My questions still remain.

Is it true?

Have you really read any of the Greek thinkers?

Back to square one. Does it bother you that the Trinitarian Fathers teach that they derived the Trinity by combining Jewish Monotheism with Pagan Polytheism.

During at leasts parts of the preceding thread this seemed to bother you. However if it does not, then perhaps we are done.

Jehovah did not tell Moses that he gave part of the truth to the Jews and part to the Pagans when Moses wrote the SHEMA at Deut 6:4.

Jehovah told Moses to keep clear of Pagan teachings.

Why don't Trinitarians feel the same way?

Eh?