Pro-life Paralysis

[whag]

I'm tired of polarizing abortion discussions that don't acknowledge the ambiguity of this difficult issue. The prolife movement is paralyzed by profound disagreement, laziness, and hypocrisy. Half of it believes that artificial birth control is evil, a good portion of them would enforce rape victims to carry children to term, and a great most of them won't adopt children in foster care who need loving, stable families. Adopting a kid is inconvenient in most cases. It takes commitment and selflessness.

If prolifers were given their way, we'd be overrun with orphans like in Nikolai Ceausescu's Romania. Probirth fetishism is just as sick as death fetishism.

Because of these issues, even the current debate on fetal body parts trading won't gain the pro life movement much ground. They always think they can change the entire debate by overemphasizing one grisly sliver of the problem, such as when partial birth abortion was the big topic. It never works that way.

[seer]

Because of these issues, even the current debate on fetal body parts trading won't gain the pro life movement much ground. They always think they can change the entire debate by overemphasizing one grisly sliver of the problem, such as when partial birth abortion was the big topic. It never works that way.

No, it is just one more nail in the coffin of this evil (pun intended). In 1995 33% of the population self identified as pro-life and 56% as pro-death - today it is nearly even 46/47. This latest Planned Parenthood situation is not a silver bullet but it will add to the national disgust. Drip, drip, drip...


http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/sp...-pro-life.aspx

[Leonhard]

We're no more paralysed than the feminist movement is. If you put four feminists together you'll have 5 opinions. About all they can agree on is that gays and lesbians should be treated better and be able to marry, sex is great and abortion should be free at all times, no questions asked. Ask them about whether transgenders are women, and then the older generation of feminists are going to speak up, ask them whether Pussy Riot in Russia is a good idea, and some will be a little bit for and the rest will be against it, and so on...

They're no more paralysed then we are.

The pro-life movement has many goals, most of them discussed internally. The overarching goal is simple to end abortion. That's it. We'll be successful depending on the hearts and minds of those we reach out to. If the country is going in a different direction, then we won't be successful, if people listen we will. The feminists faught for generations for their issues, we'll be doing the same.

[Teallaura]

Huh, that is strange. The biggest reversals the abortion movement has received in recent history is a direct result of the disgust and indefensibity of partial birth abortion. Seems to have worked pretty well.

[rogue06]

Huh, that is strange. The biggest reversals the abortion movement has received in recent history is a direct result of the disgust and indefensibity of partial birth abortion. Seems to have worked pretty well.

Personally I think that the widespread use of ultrasound technology has had the biggest impact. It makes the argument that the unborn baby is little more than a lump of tissue increasingly untenable

[Teallaura]

Personally I think that the widespread use of ultrasound technology has had the biggest impact. It makes the argument that the unborn baby is little more than a lump of tissue increasingly untenable

Granted. I suspect the reversals might not have happened without it. But it's the procedure itself that resulted in the first real legal strides in decades.

[Starlight]

I'm tired of polarizing abortion discussions that don't acknowledge the ambiguity of this difficult issue.

Reminds me of a couple of interesting articles on the topic I happened across today discussing the complexities of polling people's opinions on this issue. The subject is very nuanced and people don't fall as neatly into clear categories as the pollsters tend to want.

Even someone like me who is at the extreme end of the liberal spectrum on the topic in terms of what I am happy to legally allow, still don't fall into a clear category on the subject, as I think of abortion as a moral evil (albeit one that can be sufficiently justified) and thus I think that decreasing the total need for abortions would be a great thing. eg better sex education, better contraception = less abortions = great. But the ways in which I would want to go about decreasing the total number of abortions would be by equipping and empowering and educating women so that they don't have unwanted pregnancies and so don't need abortions, rather than suppressing condemning or hindering their abilities to control their bodies.

Whereas on thread after thread here, so many prolife posters have shown that they can't cope with nuance, and the tone of every one of their posts becomes "I hate abortion!!! Waaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

[KingsGambit]

The pro-life position isn't based on utilitarian considerations, so even if I granted the premises in the OP, it wouldn't affect my view. It does seem that conservative Christians do more than their fair share of picking up the slack regarding fostering and adoptions so whoever is to blame here, I would venture to say it's not the pro-life movement.

[Teallaura]

The pro-life position isn't based on utilitarian considerations, so even if I granted the premises in the OP, it wouldn't affect my view. It does seem that conservative Christians do more than their fair share of picking up the slack regarding fostering and adoptions so whoever is to blame here, I would venture to say it's not the pro-life movement.

Yeah, that!

[whag]

The pro-life position isn't based on utilitarian considerations, so even if I granted the premises in the OP, it wouldn't affect my view. It does seem that conservative Christians do more than their fair share of picking up the slack regarding fostering and adoptions so whoever is to blame here, I would venture to say it's not the pro-life movement.

I'd venture to say conservative Christians opt to conceive new children rather than adopt the children who already exist and need a home. Though they whine about a culture of convenience, they concurrently don't want to be inconvenienced by children with problems. I don't blame them. I already raised my son and don't have the strength or energy to take in another child.

It's true that some good-hearted conservative prolifers adopt but also true that liberal prochoicers adopt.

[seer]

I'd venture to say conservative Christians opt to conceive new children rather than adopt the children who already exist and need a home. Though they whine about a culture of convenience, they concurrently don't want to be inconvenienced by children with problems. I don't blame them. I already raised my son and don't have the strength or energy to take in another child.

It's true that some good-hearted conservative prolifers adopt but also true that liberal prochoicers adopt.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/christian....eEJnj8sl.dpuf


https://www.barna.org/barna-update/f...n#.Vbt6gvlVhBc

[Teallaura]

The position that if you don't.adopt you can't oppose abortion is irrational. I can't adopt regardless of my wishes. I also cannot physically stop any of the murders in New York this year. If it is inappropriate to oppose abortion under the circumstances then it is also inappropriate to oppose murder in NYC. That is untenable.

For the record I oppose both.

[whag]

The position that if you don't.adopt you can't oppose abortion is irrational. I can't adopt regardless of my wishes. I also cannot physically stop any of the murders in New York this year. If it is inappropriate to oppose abortion under the circumstances then it is also inappropriate to oppose murder in NYC. That is untenable.

For the record I oppose both.

I didn't make that argument. To their credit, some in the prolife movement criticize the lack of action on the part of prolife conservatives in adopting the children that already exist.

You have an excuse not to adopt. Many don't, including many here who whine about how selfish the world is. Many would rather bring a new life into a world that they believe is in moral decay rather than adopt children who need their help now.

[robrecht]

... For the record I oppose both.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Cow Poke]

Huh, that is strange. The biggest reversals the abortion movement has received in recent history is a direct result of the disgust and indefensibity of partial birth abortion. Seems to have worked pretty well.

And the fact that, with modern technology, we can actually see the "clump of tissue" appearing and behaving like a human baby long before birth.