Pro-life Paralysis

[Cow Poke]

No, rather you should have the smarts to not use that kind of language that has hobbled you for decades and not give your opposition room to point out your lack of principle. Ardent prolifers are in the millions while orphans number the thousands. Do the math.

You're back in that foul mood again, Whag. Why do you do that?

BTW, I'm not advancing a solely pro choice argument but a popular criticism that extreme conservative prolife groups level at the inactive, largely moderate church.

You're basically being a jerk, but...

[whag]

You're back in that foul mood again, Whag. Why do you do that?



You're basically being a jerk, but...

Jerkiness is in the eye of the beholder. Extreme conservative prolife groups would call you selfish for not dedicating your life to ending the horror of genocide.

[Cow Poke]

Jerkiness is in the eye of the beholder.

You can be a pretty decent guy, Whag, then there are times you're just such a jerk.

Extreme conservative prolife groups would call you selfish for not dedicating your life to ending the horror of genocide.

To you, somebody who opposes abortion is probably an extreme conservative prolife person. So maybe that's ME.

[mossrose]

Says the YEC.

I don't take that as an insult. Call me what you will, it just makes your own case weaker.

[Cow Poke]

No, rather you should have the smarts

gratuitous insult noted

to not use that kind of language

What kind of language? You mean "murdering babies"?

that has hobbled you for decades

How, exactly, has that "hobbled" me?

and not give your opposition room to point out your lack of principle.

ALLEGED lack of principle, and guys like you have been pointing that out with no problem.

[whag]

I don't take that as an insult. Call me what you will, it just makes your own case weaker.

I don't take what you said as an insult, either. You perpetually undermine any position you hold by accepting the equivalent of flat earth belief. The earth is not only ancient, but you're a primate, which affects your entire religious perception.

MacArthur really screwed you up. He'll have to answer for it one day.

[whag]

You can be a pretty decent guy, Whag, then there are times you're just such a jerk.



To you, somebody who opposes abortion is probably an extreme conservative prolife person. So maybe that's ME.

Not at all. I recall Ansgar Seraph when he was here holding a very teneble and well thought out prolife position. Most of your brothers and sisters actually hold moderate prolife positions and wouldn't, for example, disingenuously call a zygote a baby.

[mossrose]

I don't take what you said as an insult, either. You perpetually undermine any position you hold by accepting the equivalent of flat earth belief. The earth is not only ancient, but you're a primate, which affects your entire religious perception.

MacArthur really screwed you up. He'll have to answer for it one day.

I was YEC long before I even heard of MacArthur. Besides, according to you, there is nobody for anybody to answer to, so what do you care.

You are a twit.

[fm93]

Not at all. I recall Ansgar Seraph when he was here holding a very teneble and well thought out prolife position. Most of your brothers and sisters actually hold moderate prolife positions and wouldn't, for example, disingenuously call a zygote a baby.

This'll be pretty embarrassing if I'm wrong, but I believe Ansgar Seraph is still here--he just goes by the username "Sam" now.

[Cow Poke]

Not at all. I recall Ansgar Seraph when he was here holding a very teneble and well thought out prolife position.

More to your liking, you mean.

Most of your brothers and sisters actually hold moderate prolife positions and wouldn't, for example, disingenuously call a zygote a baby.

So, exactly at what point of development do you believe "it" becomes a baby?

[whag]

More to your liking, you mean.

No, more teneable and defensible. More taking into account science than scripture, which is ambiguous.

exactly at what point of development do you believe "it" becomes a baby?

You're not doing yourself any favors as a pastor by pretending there's no ambiguity here. You're really in a spot if you have to acknowledge 10 to 15 percent of pregnancies end before the brain and heart develop. Surely you don't think those are actually equivalent mortal events to crib death, do you? Do you really want to admit that God created a world in which 10 percent of babies die by default? Or will you pass that buck to Satan?

[Cow Poke]

You're not doing yourself any favors as a pastor by pretending there's no ambiguity here.

I'm not pretending anything, Whag. But I can fully understand why you can't answer my question.

You're really in a spot if you have to acknowledge 10 to 15 percent of pregnancies end before the brain and heart develop.

No, actually, I'm not. Because that's not the basis on which I oppose abortion.

Surely you don't think those are actually equivalent mortal events to crib death, do you? Do you really want to admit that God created a world in which 10 percent of babies die by default? Or will you pass that buck to Satan?

You're playing goofy games to avoid answering a question.

[Jedidiah]

The problem with the pro-death crowd (like their brethren, or the same ones, the pro-homosexual crowd) is that pro-lifers cause little pings in their consciences by our very presence. They would like us all to go away and never bother them again.

Their arguments are old and tired and there is nothing new for them to debate us with. So they pooh-pooh the recently released videos of more PP horror as "shipping and handling issues" and jokes, and they start to panic and blame us for not adopting enough or not caring enough about the mothers or blah, blah, blah.

Perhaps they have never heard of pregnancy counselling centres that are prolific everywhere that deal with exactly these things. Obviously ALL run by pro-lifers.

Give it up, whag. We aren't going away, and you can't excuse yourself for your moral laxity by passing the buck to us.

And, whag, stop whining about it so much.

[whag]

Oh wait, it's even worse. Apparently, that figure refers to recognized pregnancies. The actual figure is 50% of all pregnancies end in natural miscarriage.

From a religious perspective, that's kind of disturbing. From a prolife perspective, it's downright horrifying. I guess it depends on what one's perspective is on the Problem of Evil. Skeptics merely chalk it up to nature being imperfect, which makes way more sense than a quasidualistic perspective in which a jealous bad God contends with a more powerful good God.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/pregnancy-miscarriage

[Jedidiah]

Jerkiness is in the eye of the beholder. Extreme conservative prolife groups would call you selfish for not dedicating your life to ending the horror of genocide.

You seem to be getting worse in this respect lately. Or is that only my impression?