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Sgt. Lunger's Funeral

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Good.



    Correct. Getting killed in the line of duty qualifies for that additional accolade.



    Like dying.



    I disagree. It's pretty straightforward.



    I don't know. Honoring the fallen is a good way to help the family and friends grieve.
    Helping the family grieve is noble. A bit if a tangent as it relates to the thread

    Seer started calling the guy a hero cop because this thread isn't about the cop, but to score weird political points against the president. That's why I said it was a moot point.

    I disagree, though, that simply dying in the line of duty levels one up to hero. How matters. Not every dead cop is a hero cop, some living cops are hero cops. There is no simply, clear cut criteria other than going above and beyond the call of duty. Some die while doing this, some live whole doing it, and the flipside is true as well. It does us no go to overgeneralize
    Last edited by Jaecp; 08-02-2015, 08:09 PM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
      Helping the family grieve is noble. A bit if a tangent as it relates to the thread

      Seer started calling the guy a hero cop because this thread isn't about the cop, but to score weird political points against the president. That's why I said it was a moot point.

      I disagree, though, that simply dying in the line of duty levels one up to hero. How matters. Not every dead cop is a hero cop, some living cops are hero cops. There is no simply, clear cut criteria other than going above and beyond the call of duty. Some die while doing this, some live whole doing it, and the flipside is true as well. It does us no go to overgeneralize
      A dear friend of mine lost her father exactly like this cop died. I remember the morning they called her out of class in Middle School to tell her. It's something I know intimately. He was a hero. I'm sorry you think it is not clear cut.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #48
        Wanna drop the argument from emotion and actually engage with what I have to say?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
          Wanna drop the argument from emotion and actually engage with what I have to say?
          It's opinion. On both of our parts. There is nothing to engage. I realize that. You should too.

          As far as Obama goes, I think he is a typical politician who takes advantage of politically expedient circumstances. It's little surprise that he would attend things that pander to his base and ignore those that don't. Same goes with many on the right.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
            What gives you the impression I want to disrespect the officer?

            My line of argument so far wrt why this story isn't getting major coverage is that itcwss obviously a good cop doing his job being killed unjustly

            As for my supposed lack of tact or respect, I disagree. I'm making my argument in straightforward terms. What would you have had me add?
            I think broaching the subject in the manner you have - while discussing a particular officer's recent death - is disrespectful, and you didn't seem to try to approach it in a way that's likely to be well received if, say, his family was reading this thread. We're talking about a man's death here, and you jump with a "hey guys, sorry but he's not a hero" before the body has grown cold. What reaction, exactly, did you expect?

            If you wanted to discuss how the term "hero" is used inappropriately in today's vernacular, then perhaps it would have been more appropriate to start your own thread to discuss the issue generally. By choosing to discuss this in relevance to one specific officer's death, you give the impression that you intend to demean his sacrifice.

            As far as why this isn't receiving 'major' coverage...it's probably because the major media outlets don't see a way to spin this for higher ratings.
            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

            Comment


            • #51
              I highly doubt anyone from his family is going to read this.

              Seer called him a Hero Cop. I wanted to know why. Conversation spun off from there and is on topic enough to matter with how it relates to the other ideas that it doesn't need it's own thread.

              Also, I didn't jump in with that comment, but a condemnation of using officers death to score political points. Go back to page one and read my comments there.

              For the media aspects, there is a ton of news every day. Little about this case is especially newsworthy on a national level.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                I highly doubt anyone from his family is going to read this.

                Seer called him a Hero Cop. I wanted to know why. Conversation spun off from there and is on topic enough to matter with how it relates to the other ideas that it doesn't need it's own thread.

                Also, I didn't jump in with that comment, but a condemnation of using officers death to score political points. Go back to page one and read my comments there.

                For the media aspects, there is a ton of news every day. Little about this case is especially newsworthy on a national level.
                I have no problem with calling him a hero cop. I do have a problem, however, with cases in which it seems that seer is starting something more to bash a person than to uplift another.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                  I have no problem with calling him a hero cop. I do have a problem, however, with cases in which it seems that seer is starting something more to bash a person than to uplift another.
                  Right?

                  The only point of calling this officer a Hero cop was as a way to provide some sort of bizarre balance to calling Michael Brown a thug :-/

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Saw this circulating earlier and find it to be relevant.

                    Nobody said "All Lives Matter" until someone said "Black Lives Matter." It is only said to change the conversation.

                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                      Right?

                      The only point of calling this officer a Hero cop was as a way to provide some sort of bizarre balance to calling Michael Brown a thug :-/
                      He was a hero. And Brown WAS a thug.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                        I highly doubt anyone from his family is going to read this.

                        Seer called him a Hero Cop. I wanted to know why. Conversation spun off from there and is on topic enough to matter with how it relates to the other ideas that it doesn't need it's own thread.

                        Also, I didn't jump in with that comment, but a condemnation of using officers death to score political points. Go back to page one and read my comments there.

                        For the media aspects, there is a ton of news every day. Little about this case is especially newsworthy on a national level.
                        I read and understood your first post. I stand by what I said earlier.

                        I'll leave it alone, since I've said what I wanted to and you clearly have no understanding of where I'm coming from on this one.
                        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Alternatively, I know where you're coming from and made a specific argument or two that took it into account as it relates to my own comments.

                          If you want to disagree with me on something that's fine, but have the courage of your convictions and make an argument

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                            Alternatively, I know where you're coming from and made a specific argument or two that took it into account as it relates to my own comments.

                            If you want to disagree with me on something that's fine, but have the courage of your convictions and make an argument
                            It is not necessary to hash out every disagreement.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              It is not necessary to hash out every disagreement.
                              You're absolutely correct.

                              I take offense though when people refuse to engage and start throwing out things like "you clearly have no understanding of where I'm coming from" instead of even trying to discuss it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                                You're absolutely correct.

                                I take offense though when people refuse to engage and start throwing out things like "you clearly have no understanding of where I'm coming from" instead of even trying to discuss it.
                                I made an attempt to explain myself, but it's not like I can draw on a lot of empirical sources, complete with peer-reviewed research to explain to you why I perceived your comments as disrespectful.

                                I mentioned the officer's family reading the thread not because I actually think they'll ever see this, but because I wanted you to imagine their reaction as a family member if they did happen to read your comments. Someone mentions the man's funeral and calls him a hero, and then you stop in and spend considerable effort getting into an argument because you don't think his sacrifice (the ultimate one, by the way) makes him worthy of the appellation. You don't think his family or co-workers would be upset that you're demeaning his sacrifice so soon after his death?

                                Merriam-Webster's Dictionary says a hero is "a person who is admired for great or brave acts or fine qualities" or "a person who is greatly admired". Your argument is that he doesn't deserve the title. So according to you the hierarchy appears to be:
                                1. Hero Cop
                                2. Hero
                                3. [Something else, maybe 'cop' or just 'not-a-hero', or 'average joe']

                                You're arguing to move him down a rung or two in this hierarchy, so the implication is that he should be held in less esteem than someone who does qualify for those categories and his death was just routine. I think you're arguing to lower the value of his sacrifice and any person with a little tact would have resisted the urge to make that argument here and now.

                                The man died on a traffic stop, trying to keep the roadways safe for the people in his community. I think he deserves a little more respect, and wouldn't have dreamed of having such an argument in any context that was so closely associated with a specific man's line-of-duty death. But that's me. You appear to feel differently and that's fine. I just felt, given the man's sacrifice, maybe I should call you out for acting like an irreverent punk.

                                If you have any additional questions about whether or not I have the 'courage' to make my arguments, let's go ahead and address that now, too.
                                "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                                Comment

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