Using computers on Shabbat

[Sevivon1913]

Looking at Mordechai's link reminded me of something - keep in mind time zone differences. It's been a long time since I've used paltalk, but Dr. Barzillai (who apparently is a collegue of Mordechai ben Tzion, according to that link) is an old Orthodox Jewish Rabbi who is very knowledgable - he comes from a family that has lived in Israel since the 1st century, IIRC!

Sevivon, I haven't talked to R. Barzillai for about 2 years. How is he doing? If you see him on Paltalk, could you get his website's URL for me please? There was some information on it that I could use, but I can't remember the URL.

Hobbit,

Rabbi Yosef Barzillai is the grandfather of Dr B'tzalel Barzillai,a codicologist. Professor Mordochai Ben-Tziyyon is Rabbi Yosef Barzillai's nephew and Dr B'tzalel Barzillai's cousin. Thus, they are all one family (if I muddled that up, the point was that Rabbi Yosef is Professor Mordochai's uncle).

Unfortunately, Rabbi Yosef passed away, God bless him (as you can see at the top and bottom of the "WHY the xianity deception?" page, of which he is the original author) Rabbi Yosef's homepage was http://membres.lycos.fr/barzillai/ (still available), but you'll find most of it on Professor Mordochai's website now, and he is 86 himself and very knowledgeable)

[Gavriel]

is it allowed for orthodox jews?

Nope

[Sparko]

Thanks everyone

[Sparko]

Sev, I don't think Mordochai Ben-Tziyyon is who he claims he is.

I went to the Hebrew University in Jerusalem's website http://www.huji.ac.il/huji/eng/staff_academic_e.htm and looked everywhere for anything with his name on it, on staff, courses, research papers, contacts, or anything like that. Nothing.

Doing a google search for his name shows nothing but his web page and some of the tweb threads about him.

I think you should ask him for some online verification of his claims on who he is next time you are in his room.

[Conductor42]

Indeed. Initially I was thinking that perhaps it was due to transliteration. So I ran a search on his name, in Hebrew - once with quotes, and once without, and nothing relevant came up.

See: this link

Well, that's not totally true - there's a record of a ketubah from the 1700's that contains the name of a person whose name contains Mordechai ben Tzion, but I'm quite sure that man is long dead.

The only other possiblity is that the man uses an alias. Someone should ask him.

Sev, I don't think Mordochai Ben-Tziyyon is who he claims he is.

I went to the Hebrew University in Jerusalem's website http://www.huji.ac.il/huji/eng/staff_academic_e.htm and looked everywhere for anything with his name on it, on staff, courses, research papers, contacts, or anything like that. Nothing.

Doing a google search for his name shows nothing but his web page and some of the tweb threads about him.

I think you should ask him for some online verification of his claims on who he is next time you are in his room.

[mitzi]

According to Orthodox Judaism, there are 39 categories of melekah - all of which were involved in the construction of the temple(s). One of those categories is writing, and when you are using a computer you are causing it to write - certainly if you are posting on a forum during Shabbat! I believe this would be the main reason that computers are prohibited during Shabbat.

Of course, you could always Ask Moses!

Correct, teh hobbit, One of those categories is writing but another is generating electricity but again being Karaite I would think that the Shabbat laws would be "quite” different from Rabbical Judaism when dealing with justifying circumstances. See the following article: Shabbat and Work . Again, as I’ve mentioned, depending on the circumstances, there had been an occasion that a Rabbi had to give (because of the information left on the board) reasons to delete a post. I think when I posted the previous reply I was thinking of the following verse or at least I had it in mind "If you obey me - declares YHWH - and Guard yourselves for your own sake against carrying burdens on the Shabbat day, and bringing them through the gates of the City (Jerusalem). Nor shall you carry burdens from your houses on the Shabbat day, or do any work, but you shall hallow the Shabbat day .... If you obey me - declares YHWH - and do not bring in burdens through the gates of this city on the Shabbat day, but hallow the Shabbat day and do no work on it, then [good things will follow]. But if you do not obey My command to hallow the Shabbat day, [bad things will follow]. (Jer 17:21-27)", would “ you ” interpret this for me, please?

No I didn't look at Mordechai's link reminded me of something - keep in mind time zone differences. And the other thought that I believe was mentioned:

One should (also) watch the time of the post in which the person is posting and the area (or country) in which they live, regarding Shabbat. Again, from what I understand from the post, the poster, had been communicating with a Rabbi, is this correct? If so why didn't the Rabbi bring this to the posters attention? Isn't there a Rabbi within your area that you can communicate with?

Thanks

[Sevivon1913]

Sparko,

His name wouldn't be on Hebrew University's website -- he's retired. Also, his name does sound like it could be a pseudonym for a Hebrew (why be bothered?). Who would blame him? People who criticise Christianity in books, or even online, have been known to get death threats and harassment (i.e. like Acharya S and Earl Doherty). He most definately is a professor, based on his knowledge and mannerism. Then again, even if he wasn't a professor, his knowledge exceeds that of most professors. He has backed up everything in his articles using a sophisticated knowledge of Tanakh language and grammar, wide knowledge of the content of these scriptures, much more than any pope

"I think you should ask him for some online verification of his claims on who he is next time you are in his room." ....why? he doesn't owe anything to anyone - it's not like he's claiming to be a prophet or the messiah, he's merely dishing out factual and verifiable information.

Sevivon

[Sparko]

Sparko,

His name wouldn't be on Hebrew University's website -- he's retired. Also, his name does sound like it could be a pseudonym for a Hebrew (why be bothered?). Who would blame him? People who criticise Christianity in books, or even online, have been known to get death threats and harassment (i.e. like Acharya S and Earl Doherty). He most definately is a professor, based on his knowledge and mannerism. Then again, even if he wasn't a professor, his knowledge exceeds that of most professors. He has backed up everything in his articles using a sophisticated knowledge of Tanakh language and grammar, wide knowledge of the content of these scriptures, much more than any pope

"I think you should ask him for some online verification of his claims on who he is next time you are in his room." ....why? he doesn't owe anything to anyone - it's not like he's claiming to be a prophet or the messiah, he's merely dishing out factual and verifiable information.

Sevivon

Sevivon, it was based on his "mannerisms" that I decided to check up on him.

He comes into our pal talk room, runs a script that grabs everyone's name from our room, posts a link to his web page and leaves. Then he starts Instant Messenging people in the room, insulting them, calling them racist Mamzers and so on.

Does that sound like honorable and dignified actions one would expect from an 80 year old professor at a respected University? Does the fact that if you even say the word Jewish to him incite him to call you names and a racist sound like a professor at Hebrew University? If you do a search for the word "Jewish" at Hebrew University, the word shows up 1509 times in their research and development database (mostly lists of courses given at the university) http://www3.huji.ac.il/mega/272.html

The guy is a phoney. I don't care how knowledgeable you THINK he is, so far everything you have told me about him has given evidence that he doesn't know what he is talking about, and that he is a nut. He teaches that the word Jew is racist, that its OK to use a computer on Shabbat, that all Christians are racists, he claims to work (or be retired) at Hebrew University, a place that has no mention of him and uses the word "Jew" and "Jewish" freely, he has no published papers on their site or elsewhere, he acts like a troll on pal talk, stealing names, spamming and insulting people in their own rooms.

He doesn't sound very professor-like to me. He sounds like a racist antimissionary hatemonger.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Sparko,

His name wouldn't be on Hebrew University's website -- he's retired. Also, his name does sound like it could be a pseudonym for a Hebrew (why be bothered?). Who would blame him? People who criticise Christianity in books, or even online, have been known to get death threats and harassment (i.e. like Acharya S and Earl Doherty). He most definately is a professor, based on his knowledge and mannerism. Then again, even if he wasn't a professor, his knowledge exceeds that of most professors. He has backed up everything in his articles using a sophisticated knowledge of Tanakh language and grammar, wide knowledge of the content of these scriptures, much more than any pope

"I think you should ask him for some online verification of his claims on who he is next time you are in his room." ....why? he doesn't owe anything to anyone - it's not like he's claiming to be a prophet or the messiah, he's merely dishing out factual and verifiable information.

Sevivon

I find it interesting that it doesn't really matter because he's backed everything up even if he doesn't really have credentials. Just look at his arguments!

However, when we ask him to do the same thing with JPH.....

[Sparko]

I find it interesting that it doesn't really matter because he's backed everything up even if he doesn't really have credentials. Just look at his arguments!

However, when we ask him to do the same thing with JPH.....

Yep, to Sevivon, it seems that it doesn't matter that:


1. the stuff Mordochai told him HASN"T been backup up, but has been shown to be false. e.g. the points in this thread.

2. It doesn't MATTER if Modochai is lying about who he is, Sevivon still trusts what he teaches even if he lies outright about his credentials.

If Sevivon really feel that way, then he is truly brainwashed. Maybe he deserves what he gets? I don't know. I still want to try to reach him.


Sevivon:

If you don't want to listen to me, at least listen to some real Jews on this board. I am not trying to convince you of Christianity or convert you or anything like that. I am just trying to keep you out of listening to an obvious false teacher of Judaism who will only lead you down a path of hatred, paranoia and misery.

If you want to be a Jew (or Hebrew) then be so, but study with a real Rabbi, not this phoney hatemonger.

[Sevivon1913]

Sparko,

1) His articles that disprove Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 53 as being references to "Yeshua HaNotzri" clearly provide word by word translation of the original Hebrew. I consulted a Hebrew dictionary and found it to be entirely accurate, whilst the Christian translation - as Professor Mordochai rightly points out - are wrong.

2) I do not trust anyone's teachings, which is precisely why I don't bother to read many secondary source books that you claim prove Christianity or Yeshua's existence. Professor Mordochai's articles deal with primary sources. If he writes something that I consider wrong, I do not re-calibrate my brain to believe what he wrote - I reject it as wrong. For example, he says Constantine the "Great" had Christianity invented - FROM SCRATCH - and that no Hebrew who had been involved in blending the Hebrew yearning for the Messiah with the pagan Dionysius-Ossiris god-man myth. I disagree that it was invented FROM SCRATCH: there is evidence that some hellenized Hebrews were involved in such degenerate paganism prior to the 4th Century CE, and these were probably the basis for Constantine's new religion. In a world where two thousand years we've been deceived, it's not wise to trust someone - however seemingly intelligent - on paltalk as being infallible. Afterall, alot of the Christians like to present themselves as Pseudo-intellectual geniuses.

....All I'm saying is that I checked out everything he wrote (even though I was aware of a large part of it previously, anyway) and it is all entirely consistant and accurate with Judaism. Infact, it's not even original - large amounts of his articles are similar to the debates at Barcelona, because Hebrew issues with Christianity haven't changed in two thousand years.

"a path of hatred, paranoia and misery" ...you're so melodramatic, lol. Religion should never be taken so seriously. As for studying with Rabbis, we have a very high number of orthodox synagogues, bookstores, kosher shops, schools, Jews and authentic Rabbis here, in the UK.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Sparko,

1) His articles that disprove Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 53 as being references to "Yeshua HaNotzri" clearly provide word by word translation of the original Hebrew. I consulted a Hebrew dictionary and found it to be entirely accurate, whilst the Christian translation - as Professor Mordochai rightly points out - are wrong.

But in PALtalk, you couldn't even get past the first part of Isaiah 7:14 (the context proceeding it) and you made unbased statements that you couldn't back.

Excuse me if I'm not skeptical.

[Sparko]

Religion should never be taken so seriously.

I think that says it all about you sev.

Yeah I take my faith seriously. Sure I have fun, but when it comes to eternity, I am very serious. When it comes to truth regarding the creator of the Universe, I am very serious. That you don't is very obvious and thus gives your posts and your conversations in pal talk that childish troll-like quality that everyone here recognizes.

Mordochai is going to lead you to destruction and one day you will realize it. Hopefully while you are still alive and have a chance to change.

Again, don't take my word for it. Check around for yourself. Ask the orthodox Hebrews here on tweb or elsewhere.

[Sevivon1913]

"Mordochai is going to lead you to destruction" ...How many times must I repeat: I do not base any of my beliefs on Mordochai's articles. I only speak to him occasionally.

I do take religion seriously, just not taliban-style fundamentalist serious like you (i.e. dishing out fire and brimstone).

Your hinted threat that I'm going to roast in Hell for all eternity for rejecting Jesus Christ is baseless. The Church has taught me that he died for all the world -- that includes me -- and they were, supposedly, given authority by Jesus Chirst. Thus, no good person has anything to worry about. Indeed, why SHOULD anyone beleive in him. There just isn't - to be perfectly honest -anything that suggests that he might actually have been the real messiah (let alone, God). From what I can tell, the only evidence you have, when it comes down to it, is a "feeling" in your hearts that tells you he is who he was. That feeling should be fought tooth and nail, because it's actually imposed on western society by upbringing and social environment. No such feeling ever existed in far off tribes who'd never even heard of Jesus. Only AFTER the missionaries arrived and brainwashed them with threats of "hell" did their society have such "feelings" (presumably more of a fear of hell than a gravitation toward Jesus).

[Sparko]

"Mordochai is going to lead you to destruction" ...How many times must I repeat: I do not base any of my beliefs on Mordochai's articles. I only speak to him occasionally.

I do take religion seriously, just not taliban-style fundamentalist serious like you (i.e. dishing out fire and brimstone).

Your hinted threat that I'm going to roast in Hell for all eternity for rejecting Jesus Christ is baseless. The Church has taught me that he died for all the world -- that includes me -- and they were, supposedly, given authority by Jesus Chirst. Thus, no good person has anything to worry about. Indeed, why SHOULD anyone beleive in him. There just isn't - to be perfectly honest -anything that suggests that he might actually have been the real messiah (let alone, God). From what I can tell, the only evidence you have, when it comes down to it, is a "feeling" in your hearts that tells you he is who he was. That feeling should be fought tooth and nail, because it's actually imposed on western society by upbringing and social environment. No such feeling ever existed in far off tribes who'd never even heard of Jesus. Only AFTER the missionaries arrived and brainwashed them with threats of "hell" did their society have such "feelings" (presumably more of a fear of hell than a gravitation toward Jesus).

I never even brought Christianity or Jesus into this conversation, Sev, you and your own preconceptions did.

I am talking about you telling ME what REAL Jews, sorry, HEBREWS do and don't do based on the lies of Mordochai ben-Tziyyon. Like saying I am racist because I use the word Jew, or that it is OK to use a computer on the sabbath, or that the American Jews are not real Hebrews because they abandoned their brothers in Germany during WWII and other similar dross you spew out in Pal Talk but back away from when here in a Jewish area with real orthodox Jews that are not ashamed of their name and who tell you also that you are full of crap and so is Mordochai.

That's what I am talking about. Open your eyes.