Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Why I am an atheist

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Papa Zoom View Post
    Well that's a nice dodge.
    No dodge at all. It was a not so nice dodge on your part. You need to do much better than that to justify any sort of 'objective morality' than a terse stiff short statement of ridiculous extremes.

    I thought I would revisit this statement.

    Originally posted by Papa Zoom

    We value eyewitness testimony and use it all the time. Since it can be tested one cannot simply dismiss it out of hand.
    What sort of eyewitness testimony that can be tested are you referring to.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-03-2015, 06:15 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      I was born into a Christian family and raised a Christian and all my friends and family were Christians. I believed it because everyone said it was true. As an adult, I thought it would be nice to have some actual evidence to back up these beliefs, and I was unable to find any.

      You sure you don't want to reword that?
      Either you're remarkably ignorant ('cause there is lots of evidence), or you're making a pretty broad claim (there is no evidence for Christianity, at all).


      Originally posted by Starlight
      I hold to the same objective morality that pretty much all the other atheists on this forum do and which has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads and which I'm not going to repeat here.

      You misread my post. I changed from a believing Christian to a nominal Christian (who didn't believe in the supernatural but who still thought Christianity was a good idea because it promoted people being nice to each other) because I couldn't find any legitimate evidence of the supernatural. I changed my labeling from a 'nominal Christian' to an 'atheist' because I concluded that Christianity on balance wasn't actually causing people to be nice.
      It looks to me like you were an atheist in all but name long before you admitted to yourself that that is what you were.
      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        The view I reached was that Christianity is now more often than not, a barrier to social progress, and its medieval (im)morality does more harm than good in the modern world.
        Interesting, I came to the opposite conclusion by seeing how state atheism was managed under communist regimes. I saw atheism as being a barrier to social progress.
        “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Jichard View Post
          Yeah, I don't think you're using the terms "objective" and "subjective" in a way that makes sense.
          Why do you think he isn't?
          “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
            The problem is that if you reject the existence of God, how do you objectively measure good, and how do you objectively determine what is 'progress' for a society?
            All measurement is done by comparison with something else that shares the ‘dimension’ that we wish to measure. There are no exceptions. Absolute standards do not exist.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              All measurement is done by comparison with something else that shares the ‘dimension’ that we wish to measure. There are no exceptions. Absolute standards do not exist.
              Wrong. Scientific measurement of the Universe is done without comparison to another Universe. This does not mean there are no absolute standards that we can derive from the Universe.

              It's so funny how the all so often atheist community who declare that they are the ones who are smarter because they don't reject science all too often forget about objective science when it suits them and their argument.
              “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Darth Ovious View Post
                Wrong. Scientific measurement of the Universe is done without comparison to another Universe. This does not mean there are no absolute standards that we can derive from the Universe.
                This is true, but a questionable response. All observations and measurements concerning the physics and cosmology of our universe represents many repeated research based comparisons of data. Our universe is very consistent based on falsifiable theories which work.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Darth Ovious View Post
                  Wrong. Scientific measurement of the Universe is done without comparison to another Universe. This does not mean there are no absolute standards that we can derive from the Universe.
                  He didn't say that all measurement is done by comparison to a similar object. He said that all measurement is accomplished by comparison of objects which share a dimension of measure. This is an entirely true statement.

                  So, for example, when we measure the spatial radius of the observable universe, we do so by comparing that radius to something else which can be measured by spatial displacement-- say, the distance which light travels through a vacuum in one year.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                    It looks to me like you were an atheist in all but name long before you admitted to yourself that that is what you were.
                    Er, I said that. That's what "nominal Christian" means.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Er, I said that. That's what "nominal Christian" means.
                      No, a "nominal Christian" is not "an atheist in all but name".
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                        He didn't say that all measurement is done by comparison to a similar object. He said that all measurement is accomplished by comparison of objects which share a dimension of measure. This is an entirely true statement.
                        You need to re-read what he said because he said that absolute standards do not exist and that is what I am questioning. If absolute standards do not exist then how do we know objective facts about the Universe?

                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        All measurement is done by comparison with something else that shares the ‘dimension’ that we wish to measure. There are no exceptions. Absolute standards do not exist.
                        So, for example, when we measure the spatial radius of the observable universe, we do so by comparing that radius to something else which can be measured by spatial displacement-- say, the distance which light travels through a vacuum in one year.
                        Is that measurement an objective one?
                        “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          No, a "nominal Christian" is not "an atheist in all but name".
                          Another person incapable of using a dictionary... ~sigh~
                          So what does "nominal Christian" mean in your imagination?
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Another person incapable of using a dictionary... ~sigh~
                            You're such a girl.

                            So what does "nominal Christian" mean in your imagination?
                            "Existing in name only", but it does NOT default to "an atheist in all but name". It could be a seeker, or an agnostic.....

                            Now, go imagine you're a human.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Darth Ovious View Post
                              You need to re-read what he said because he said that absolute standards do not exist and that is what I am questioning. If absolute standards do not exist then how do we know objective facts about the Universe?
                              Is that measurement an objective one?
                              You need to explain what you expect by 'absolute standards,' because in science this terminology is not meaningful. In fact from the human perspective on anything 'absolute standards' are not meaningful.

                              Yes, when the scientific measurements are based on objective physical evidence based on falsifiable theories and hypothesis.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-03-2015, 09:35 PM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I don't even understand what's going on in this thread anymore.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                39 responses
                                142 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                80 responses
                                425 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X