Reality is US.

[THUMPER]

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see. We must change our attitudes first as they will remain, however changes bring consciousness.

Does religion provide attitudes about life, yes it does.

Your thoughts creat reality, en mass we form what we wish to see, feel and hear; our closed system of beliefs form what little reality we see.

As best we can, we make things "beleavable" as in our world things must have some "credibility"; a God is made into the form of a man and religions sprout like weeds. Most, if not the majority of religions creat a battle of "good v. evil" and the good guy in the white hat always wins; sound familiar?

We creat what we want, always have, always will.

Our telepathy operates constantly, we creat by thought and the physical follows. Consciousness, the thoughts, come first beofre anything else. Before we had a body, we were "us", the individule. If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way. What projections you send have validity in our reality. The more the numbers of "beleavers" the more solid this reality becomes. We are now focused in this time, this space, this earth as we created it and believe in it.

What you see in others is the materialization-the projection of what you see in yourself. If a person seems decietful to you, then you decieve yourself. A projection and interpretation of oneself. It all goes around to each.

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

Ideas generate emotion, like attracts like, so simalar ideas group around you (religions) and this fits your particular system of ideas-reality.

Ideas represent your psychic intent. They generate emotion and imagination. They are the motive force of action. This is the creative force from which all realities spring. Imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that you possess as a physical creature; more power exist in simple imagination than the power it takes to send a rocket to the moon. Evrything we see today in this world was once simple imagination, yet, imagination started it all from the blueprints to physical form.

Limiting ideas (religions) therefore predispose you to accept ideas of a simalar nature. Exuberant ideas, freedom, spontaneity and joy automatically collect others of thier kind also. There is a conscious interplay between yourself and others in the exchange of ideas, both telepathecally and on a conscious level. You react to this exchange based on your ideas about yourself and your reality.

Religion can indeed provide the very "demons" you seek as your beliefs are so strong in them they will gain some validity. A demon may have no power over you as it is not grounded in reality as you are; however, many times persons of religion have passed on and met thier fate based on thier expectations and system of belief. In time ( and time is a facade) such persons were taught the "hellish" reality they find themselves in isen't real enough to hold them. And it will fall away and reality will spring forward. Be carefull what you wish for. A demon can only hold you if you allow it.

All times, all percieved-space, all things exist at once in a fraction of a heartbeat, perceptions limit what we experience, nothing starts or ends as this is not the nature of reality, only perception. Deja-vu is an example of expanded consciousness, we see -feel or sense something that may have occurd prior, or did it? It occured now, we simply bumped into it as maybe our eyes were open at that time. :)

Telepathic communication is constant at the unconscious level merly because the conscious mind is in a state of becoming...as an example
if your thoughts are relatively positive you will react to thoughts of the same or simalar nature; anyone can think negative about you without effect on you as you do not buy into thier ideas.

You make your reality. You get what you concentrate on-there is no other main rule.

You may also react to inner information at an uncounscious level collected under your organization of your conscious concepts. So you are locked into physical situations that are corroborated by the greater psychic consciousness of others. Like being at a dance, sometimes others want a certain song you don't like, and the song plays while others dance, you sit, this is your preception, so it is valid.

You form your reality directly. You react consciously and uncounsciously your beliefs. You collect from the physical universe (you created), and the interior one, data that seems to corroborate your beliefs and that forms your perceptive reality.

You must become aware of your own structures (beliefs). Build them, or tear them down, but don't yourself become blind to the furniture (beliefs) of your mind, it will help you, in fact, furniture can be rearranged, changed, renewed, thrown out ect. Pick what furniture you like. See what is inside the drawers or how well your end tables fit together.

Bad ideas, like furniture, will ramin together unless you elect to place them elsewhere..

The conscious mind is the vehicle for the expression of the soul in corporeal terms. Your made up in body by your beleafs. Consciousness creats reality, it's not the other way around.

The first important step to realize your beliefs about reality are just that-beliefs about oneself , they do not neccesarily make up reality without the ability to change it. What you wish-imagine-think can all be changed with imagination and thought.

The very nature of reality has it's complexities; this is wide open for discussion. Truley having an open mind to contemplate information must exist, absent that, this Webpage is useless.

In closing I must say I do not wish to offend religious ones. We think and therefore we are.

[Minnesota]

.

twaddle

.

[Cynic Sage]

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see. We must change our attitudes first as they will remain, however changes bring consciousness.

Does religion provide attitudes about life, yes it does.

Your thoughts creat reality, en mass we form what we wish to see, feel and hear; our closed system of beliefs form what little reality we see.

As best we can, we make things "beleavable" as in our world things must have some "credibility"; a God is made into the form of a man and religions sprout like weeds. Most, if not the majority of religions creat a battle of "good v. evil" and the good guy in the white hat always wins; sound familiar?

We creat what we want, always have, always will.

Our telepathy operates constantly, we creat by thought and the physical follows. Consciousness, the thoughts, come first beofre anything else. Before we had a body, we were "us", the individule. If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way. What projections you send have validity in our reality. The more the numbers of "beleavers" the more solid this reality becomes. We are now focused in this time, this space, this earth as we created it and believe in it.

What you see in others is the materialization-the projection of what you see in yourself. If a person seems decietful to you, then you decieve yourself. A projection and interpretation of oneself. It all goes around to each.

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

Ideas generate emotion, like attracts like, so simalar ideas group around you (religions) and this fits your particular system of ideas-reality.

Ideas represent your psychic intent. They generate emotion and imagination. They are the motive force of action. This is the creative force from which all realities spring. Imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that you possess as a physical creature; more power exist in simple imagination than the power it takes to send a rocket to the moon. Evrything we see today in this world was once simple imagination, yet, imagination started it all from the blueprints to physical form.

Limiting ideas (religions) therefore predispose you to accept ideas of a simalar nature. Exuberant ideas, freedom, spontaneity and joy automatically collect others of thier kind also. There is a conscious interplay between yourself and others in the exchange of ideas, both telepathecally and on a conscious level. You react to this exchange based on your ideas about yourself and your reality.

Religion can indeed provide the very "demons" you seek as your beliefs are so strong in them they will gain some validity. A demon may have no power over you as it is not grounded in reality as you are; however, many times persons of religion have passed on and met thier fate based on thier expectations and system of belief. In time ( and time is a facade) such persons were taught the "hellish" reality they find themselves in isen't real enough to hold them. And it will fall away and reality will spring forward. Be carefull what you wish for. A demon can only hold you if you allow it.

All times, all percieved-space, all things exist at once in a fraction of a heartbeat, perceptions limit what we experience, nothing starts or ends as this is not the nature of reality, only perception. Deja-vu is an example of expanded consciousness, we see -feel or sense something that may have occurd prior, or did it? It occured now, we simply bumped into it as maybe our eyes were open at that time. :)

Telepathic communication is constant at the unconscious level merly because the conscious mind is in a state of becoming...as an example
if your thoughts are relatively positive you will react to thoughts of the same or simalar nature; anyone can think negative about you without effect on you as you do not buy into thier ideas.

You make your reality. You get what you concentrate on-there is no other main rule.

You may also react to inner information at an uncounscious level collected under your organization of your conscious concepts. So you are locked into physical situations that are corroborated by the greater psychic consciousness of others. Like being at a dance, sometimes others want a certain song you don't like, and the song plays while others dance, you sit, this is your preception, so it is valid.

You form your reality directly. You react consciously and uncounsciously your beliefs. You collect from the physical universe (you created), and the interior one, data that seems to corroborate your beliefs and that forms your perceptive reality.

You must become aware of your own structures (beliefs). Build them, or tear them down, but don't yourself become blind to the furniture (beliefs) of your mind, it will help you, in fact, furniture can be rearranged, changed, renewed, thrown out ect. Pick what furniture you like. See what is inside the drawers or how well your end tables fit together.

Bad ideas, like furniture, will ramin together unless you elect to place them elsewhere..

The conscious mind is the vehicle for the expression of the soul in corporeal terms. Your made up in body by your beleafs. Consciousness creats reality, it's not the other way around.

The first important step to realize your beliefs about reality are just that-beliefs about oneself , they do not neccesarily make up reality without the ability to change it. What you wish-imagine-think can all be changed with imagination and thought.

The very nature of reality has it's complexities; this is wide open for discussion. Truley having an open mind to contemplate information must exist, absent that, this Webpage is useless.

In closing I must say I do not wish to offend religious ones. We think and therefore we are.

Why the crap is this in PoliSci?

[Ishmael]

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see. We must change our attitudes first as they will remain, however changes bring consciousness.

Does religion provide attitudes about life, yes it does.

Your thoughts creat reality, en mass we form what we wish to see, feel and hear; our closed system of beliefs form what little reality we see.

As best we can, we make things "beleavable" as in our world things must have some "credibility"; a God is made into the form of a man and religions sprout like weeds. Most, if not the majority of religions creat a battle of "good v. evil" and the good guy in the white hat always wins; sound familiar?

We creat what we want, always have, always will.

Our telepathy operates constantly, we creat by thought and the physical follows. Consciousness, the thoughts, come first beofre anything else. Before we had a body, we were "us", the individule. If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way. What projections you send have validity in our reality. The more the numbers of "beleavers" the more solid this reality becomes. We are now focused in this time, this space, this earth as we created it and believe in it.

What you see in others is the materialization-the projection of what you see in yourself. If a person seems decietful to you, then you decieve yourself. A projection and interpretation of oneself. It all goes around to each.

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

Ideas generate emotion, like attracts like, so simalar ideas group around you (religions) and this fits your particular system of ideas-reality.

Ideas represent your psychic intent. They generate emotion and imagination. They are the motive force of action. This is the creative force from which all realities spring. Imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that you possess as a physical creature; more power exist in simple imagination than the power it takes to send a rocket to the moon. Evrything we see today in this world was once simple imagination, yet, imagination started it all from the blueprints to physical form.

Limiting ideas (religions) therefore predispose you to accept ideas of a simalar nature. Exuberant ideas, freedom, spontaneity and joy automatically collect others of thier kind also. There is a conscious interplay between yourself and others in the exchange of ideas, both telepathecally and on a conscious level. You react to this exchange based on your ideas about yourself and your reality.

Religion can indeed provide the very "demons" you seek as your beliefs are so strong in them they will gain some validity. A demon may have no power over you as it is not grounded in reality as you are; however, many times persons of religion have passed on and met thier fate based on thier expectations and system of belief. In time ( and time is a facade) such persons were taught the "hellish" reality they find themselves in isen't real enough to hold them. And it will fall away and reality will spring forward. Be carefull what you wish for. A demon can only hold you if you allow it.

All times, all percieved-space, all things exist at once in a fraction of a heartbeat, perceptions limit what we experience, nothing starts or ends as this is not the nature of reality, only perception. Deja-vu is an example of expanded consciousness, we see -feel or sense something that may have occurd prior, or did it? It occured now, we simply bumped into it as maybe our eyes were open at that time. :)

Telepathic communication is constant at the unconscious level merly because the conscious mind is in a state of becoming...as an example
if your thoughts are relatively positive you will react to thoughts of the same or simalar nature; anyone can think negative about you without effect on you as you do not buy into thier ideas.

You make your reality. You get what you concentrate on-there is no other main rule.

You may also react to inner information at an uncounscious level collected under your organization of your conscious concepts. So you are locked into physical situations that are corroborated by the greater psychic consciousness of others. Like being at a dance, sometimes others want a certain song you don't like, and the song plays while others dance, you sit, this is your preception, so it is valid.

You form your reality directly. You react consciously and uncounsciously your beliefs. You collect from the physical universe (you created), and the interior one, data that seems to corroborate your beliefs and that forms your perceptive reality.

You must become aware of your own structures (beliefs). Build them, or tear them down, but don't yourself become blind to the furniture (beliefs) of your mind, it will help you, in fact, furniture can be rearranged, changed, renewed, thrown out ect. Pick what furniture you like. See what is inside the drawers or how well your end tables fit together.

Bad ideas, like furniture, will ramin together unless you elect to place them elsewhere..

The conscious mind is the vehicle for the expression of the soul in corporeal terms. Your made up in body by your beleafs. Consciousness creats reality, it's not the other way around.

The first important step to realize your beliefs about reality are just that-beliefs about oneself , they do not neccesarily make up reality without the ability to change it. What you wish-imagine-think can all be changed with imagination and thought.

The very nature of reality has it's complexities; this is wide open for discussion. Truley having an open mind to contemplate information must exist, absent that, this Webpage is useless.

In closing I must say I do not wish to offend religious ones. We think and therefore we are.

Have you been introduced to Satori?

[Mark_S]

Do we have to keep quoting the whole thing?

[Ishmael]

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see. We must change our attitudes first as they will remain, however changes bring consciousness.

Does religion provide attitudes about life, yes it does.

Your thoughts creat reality, en mass we form what we wish to see, feel and hear; our closed system of beliefs form what little reality we see.

As best we can, we make things "beleavable" as in our world things must have some "credibility"; a God is made into the form of a man and religions sprout like weeds. Most, if not the majority of religions creat a battle of "good v. evil" and the good guy in the white hat always wins; sound familiar?

We creat what we want, always have, always will.

Our telepathy operates constantly, we creat by thought and the physical follows. Consciousness, the thoughts, come first beofre anything else. Before we had a body, we were "us", the individule. If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way. What projections you send have validity in our reality. The more the numbers of "beleavers" the more solid this reality becomes. We are now focused in this time, this space, this earth as we created it and believe in it.

What you see in others is the materialization-the projection of what you see in yourself. If a person seems decietful to you, then you decieve yourself. A projection and interpretation of oneself. It all goes around to each.

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

Ideas generate emotion, like attracts like, so simalar ideas group around you (religions) and this fits your particular system of ideas-reality.

Ideas represent your psychic intent. They generate emotion and imagination. They are the motive force of action. This is the creative force from which all realities spring. Imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that you possess as a physical creature; more power exist in simple imagination than the power it takes to send a rocket to the moon. Evrything we see today in this world was once simple imagination, yet, imagination started it all from the blueprints to physical form.

Limiting ideas (religions) therefore predispose you to accept ideas of a simalar nature. Exuberant ideas, freedom, spontaneity and joy automatically collect others of thier kind also. There is a conscious interplay between yourself and others in the exchange of ideas, both telepathecally and on a conscious level. You react to this exchange based on your ideas about yourself and your reality.

Religion can indeed provide the very "demons" you seek as your beliefs are so strong in them they will gain some validity. A demon may have no power over you as it is not grounded in reality as you are; however, many times persons of religion have passed on and met thier fate based on thier expectations and system of belief. In time ( and time is a facade) such persons were taught the "hellish" reality they find themselves in isen't real enough to hold them. And it will fall away and reality will spring forward. Be carefull what you wish for. A demon can only hold you if you allow it.

All times, all percieved-space, all things exist at once in a fraction of a heartbeat, perceptions limit what we experience, nothing starts or ends as this is not the nature of reality, only perception. Deja-vu is an example of expanded consciousness, we see -feel or sense something that may have occurd prior, or did it? It occured now, we simply bumped into it as maybe our eyes were open at that time. :)

Telepathic communication is constant at the unconscious level merly because the conscious mind is in a state of becoming...as an example
if your thoughts are relatively positive you will react to thoughts of the same or simalar nature; anyone can think negative about you without effect on you as you do not buy into thier ideas.

You make your reality. You get what you concentrate on-there is no other main rule.

You may also react to inner information at an uncounscious level collected under your organization of your conscious concepts. So you are locked into physical situations that are corroborated by the greater psychic consciousness of others. Like being at a dance, sometimes others want a certain song you don't like, and the song plays while others dance, you sit, this is your preception, so it is valid.

You form your reality directly. You react consciously and uncounsciously your beliefs. You collect from the physical universe (you created), and the interior one, data that seems to corroborate your beliefs and that forms your perceptive reality.

You must become aware of your own structures (beliefs). Build them, or tear them down, but don't yourself become blind to the furniture (beliefs) of your mind, it will help you, in fact, furniture can be rearranged, changed, renewed, thrown out ect. Pick what furniture you like. See what is inside the drawers or how well your end tables fit together.

Bad ideas, like furniture, will ramin together unless you elect to place them elsewhere..

The conscious mind is the vehicle for the expression of the soul in corporeal terms. Your made up in body by your beleafs. Consciousness creats reality, it's not the other way around.

The first important step to realize your beliefs about reality are just that-beliefs about oneself , they do not neccesarily make up reality without the ability to change it. What you wish-imagine-think can all be changed with imagination and thought.

The very nature of reality has it's complexities; this is wide open for discussion. Truley having an open mind to contemplate information must exist, absent that, this Webpage is useless.

In closing I must say I do not wish to offend religious ones. We think and therefore we are.

Do we have to keep quoting the whole thing?

No, why?

[Mark_S]

No, why?

'Cause every time I see the word beleafs I cringe

[Pilgrim]

I think someone went off his meds. :duck:

[mentored1]

Well met Thumper...

Regardless of the outcome I'll have at some of these interesting ideas...

Mentored1's commentary on the THUMPER Manifesto:

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see. We must change our attitudes first as they will remain, however changes bring consciousness.

You cannot escape yourself so all of your comments here are fine - can I borrow your cape Captain Obvious?

Changes don't bring consciousness silly one, consciousness is necessary to perceive change. If you're not conscious of something changing it certainly can't be the cause of you becoming conscious... Maybe I missed something though...

As best we can, we make things "beleavable" as in our world things must have some "credibility"; a God is made into the form of a man and religions sprout like weeds. Most, if not the majority of religions creat a battle of "good v. evil" and the good guy in the white hat always wins; sound familiar?

Relgions haven't created good and evil they've only presented it in a different context. Duality is inherent in human existence. In order to understand good the evil must also be understood. Hence Adam wasn't offered one fruit for good and one for evil: both were to be understood together.

If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way.

Negative implies evil. Good and evil are fabrications, as I recall from earlier, so negative is a fabrication. Though I'll assume you have a reason and basis for using negative here apart from evil... ?

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

My personality exists in multiple dimensions eh? Though I'm trying to wrap my mind around the idea that within me there is everything I need to know... How do you know that everything I need to know is within me if it is within me and not you? And how do you know what you need to know if you don't know what you need to know?

Religion can indeed provide the very "demons" you seek as your beliefs are so strong in them they will gain some validity. A demon may have no power over you as it is not grounded in reality as you are; however, many times persons of religion have passed on and met thier fate based on thier expectations and system of belief. In time ( and time is a facade) such persons were taught the "hellish" reality they find themselves in isen't real enough to hold them. And it will fall away and reality will spring forward. Be carefull what you wish for. A demon can only hold you if you allow it.

1. Religion / beliefs can validate / manifest the demons you seek
2. Demons are not grounded in reality like you are
3. Demons can hold you if you let them

An unreal creature (demon) can hold a creature of reality (you) only if the creature of reality allows the unreal creature to do so.

Is that about right?

All times, all percieved-space, all things exist at once in a fraction of a heartbeat, perceptions limit what we experience, nothing starts or ends as this is not the nature of reality, only perception.

If we take away perception (more pointedly consciousness) then how do you propose to go about understanding the nature of reality? Experiencing reality requires the ability to be aware of it; through such awareness we have the opportunity to turn over the "stones" of reality's nature.

Without the ability to perceive, to be aware of reality, the question of the nature of reality is absurd.

You must become aware of your own structures (beliefs). Build them, or tear them down, but don't yourself become blind to the furniture (beliefs) of your mind, it will help you, in fact, furniture can be rearranged, changed, renewed, thrown out ect. Pick what furniture you like. See what is inside the drawers or how well your end tables fit together.

Fair enough... But you must have some furniture. If we throw it all out and have only empty space... ahhh, but what is emptiness? The "furniture" is necessary then for without it we have nothing to think about; and thinking about nothing is a tad challenging.

The conscious mind is the vehicle for the expression of the soul in corporeal terms. Your made up in body by your beleafs. Consciousness creats reality, it's not the other way around.

Consciousness is a vehicle for the soul and it creates reality. So by extrapolation the soul creates reality through Consciousness. Does this hold true for each one of us? If so then my reality contains in large part the realities of other souls; doesn't this sort of suggest that the reality of another soul can affect and even change my Consciousness? How then do you know whose consciousness is whose?

The very nature of reality has it's complexities; this is wide open for discussion. Truley having an open mind to contemplate information must exist, absent that, this Webpage is useless.

Complexities are composed of simplicities. What is complex that is not first simple - or cannot be composed of simple things? Is it the nature of reality that is complex or is the being that attempts to understand reality the complex?

I appreciate the thought-food and enjoy a good match!

Take care

[THUMPER]

In opening I must admit surprise at some of the Campus-members whom responded; many remarks were childish and disrespectful. Few asked intelligent questions thus either indicating disinterest, which is fine or lack of understanding what was said or it's intent. Many Campus members reverted to simple insults.

Your conduct is about you, not me. If you feel so strongly and must cast insults then maybe you may want to explore yourself and why you feel so insecure.

I'll respond to each comment and have full expectations that at least one of you will stand up and engauge in intelligent dialog. Lets break it down to small parts:

Minnesota commented to the effect : Twaddle; then followed up with a evolutionary chart of mankind. Please expand on this, if you wish debate on evolution, lets rock. :)

Johnny EC appeared as the school dean :) and asked why I commented in Poly Sci " Why the crap in PoliSci"? Sometimes in High school I cut, be happy I showed up at all. :)

Ishmael asked me if I had been introduced to Satori, no, who are they and why would you ask?

Mark_S Asked me why "I kept quoting the whole thing"; if it bothers you, ask yourself why? For whatever reasons...you kept reading it, why, honestly ? The materiels I quote are based on impression (s), so, it must be impressed again and again sometimes to stress the point. Purhaps I do repeat myself, don't we all when we get excited sometimes?

Pilgrim Responded " I think someone went off their meds" . The comment is shallow and about how you feel about yourself , shallow. Purhaps in the future we can have an intelligent logical discussion as I am not opposed to this despite your rudeness in a campus forum.

mentored1 Thankyou for your comments, I don't get the "Captain Obvious" thing at all, please advise what you meant; obviously, things are not
as obvious to everyone, are they?

You comment religions do not creat good or evil but only present the context differently. I disagree, religions have given the very definition of good and evil as we interpret it, no harm done, just more words for acts that have gone on before religions in our terms of time.

I do understand your comments regarding the issue of evil ect as we Must understand ourselves (our very reality) so we may understand "good-evil".

Regarding your "Adam" and fruit comment I will add that not all things that occur are physical, in our past-future as we percieve; a psychic event has as much validity as one we interpret as historically physical.

Your comments on "negativity" could imply "evil" as You percieve it; do to your "Adam" comment I'd guess your Christian and that's fine with me, I accept you as you are. Your beliefs are your furniture, keep them, or toss them, or rearrange them...your preceptions change; when things move consciousness is hightend.

Negative thoughts, like positive thoughts move in every direction in space-time as we percieve it; yes, they "fabricate", to some extent, our future-past expectations; en mass, as a population we have a tremendous amount of horsepower; we agree to create, so we do so. Everything is to a degree.

Regarding living in multi-demensional forms; :), ok, we, as corporeal beings think nowadays from the inside of a skin suit. Sometimes it's hard to grasp anything outside our six senses we use each day; our minds, we rarely use (yes, I see them coming with coimments already:) to the extent it can operate. We are grounded in "the right now", we see the past as behind us and the future as up ahead; all are happening right now in many-many different ways, our subconsciousness is aware of it all, our consciousness is not. You are living many-lives right now in many places and in many times as you percieve time. This subject is pretty big as it sums up alot. We can get into it whenever you want. Simply put, we see what we expect to see....right now; case in point, in Vietnam, 1968, a Bhudist Monk committed "suicide" by dousing himself with gas and not moving as he burned up; how did he do that? He was able to move his consciousness away from the body and they became separate. Point, we can gain enlightened-consciousness if we wish.

Regarding your "Demons" and the like, yes, your comments hit the nail on the head, almost...what you fabricate, to an extent, can be real, to an extent. The very demons you, your religions creat, are valid, but they will have nothing over you when you learn they are something you have made yourself and you wish to discard them; if you firmly believe in their existence, you create a hell that someone else will have to pull you out of . It happens all the time, each religions person has certain expectations at death, A radical muslim may seek death with the firm beleif in a struggle between "Allah" and there form of "devil". Many times and time again, they were pulled away from that reality by being educated on the spot that what they were going through was a strong expectation they had upon their own "death". Upon learning about their reality, devils and hell fall away and reality is made present by thier awareness.

Your comments " if we take away perception ( more pointedly consciousness) then how do you propose to go about understanding the nature of reality"; I agree with you 100%; perception of our "current" reality is Grounded to our skinsuits-Earth as we "see it"-we have, most of us, limited views as we are taught that life is the skinsuit, the hard earth and not much more other than religiouns ect

Regarding the furniture issues" yes, toss the furniture, but replace it with what You want-thus, your future (as we see it) expectations shall arrive. If you view yourself as poor with little hope of gaining anything, it will most probably be so...

Your comments regarding the consciousness being the vehgicle to the soul; the "soul" is you-your consciousness, they are one and the same. Sole, a word we use only, WE are. We exist, call it what you wish. Yes, we are a "collective" we are more than what we see and we all work-consciously-subcounsciously together to creat, we each effect each other, yet we agree to do so...more comments later...I have to go..

I'll get back on track later today and cover a few more issues.


pat

[Minnesota]

.

[attachment]

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[THUMPER]

I wanted to address the last issue brought up by mentored1 regarding complexities; the complexities I speak of are complexities I precieve. I see "reality" as complex due to my own limited consciousness. On this webpage it may appear, to some, that I may actually be deprived of "MEDS" as one said; however, my perceptions like everyone else I know has it's boundries. I simply am not enlightend so much that I "understand it all"; like many, I am a student of reality.
My understandings of reality are based on studies I have personally conducted regarding Jane Roberts and the known seth materiels. My deductions appear logical based on how I sense it all. My intuitive-sponteniety and overall views are based on simply how I feel about it all; to me, it all makes sense and appears to clear up many questions Like you, I have always had.
Should anyone wish to view the materiels click search : jane roberts-seth; be advised you'll note that what you read isen't Dogma, isen't religious. I sense, like many you'll come away with a profound sense that what you are reading was writen by someone of very high intelligence; Some may even view this as "demonic" in nature, again, we all get what we expect as we are taught this. The rules for life are the same, there is no heaven awaiting the lazy who think they may "rest" for eternity; this too will fall away as you are made aware of whom you are and where you are.
I would welcome intelligent questions from anyone. Together we can address them as I am here to perform dialog. I am not here to shot down your system of beliefs, despite the fact that the very word "belief" appears to infer not all believe what you do and that is ok.

pat

[Jme]

Ok I'll give you some semi-serious answers (quick ones)

You cannot escape you own attitudes, for they will form the very nature of your reality; we see what we wish to see.

There are plentyof people out there that want to be thinner - wanting that doesn't make them lose the weigh, improved diet and exercise will though.

We creat what we want, always have, always will.

Our minds produce best fit models of what we see around us - evolution has produced something that extracts useful information from the environment. Optical illusions illustrate that what we see isn't always reality.

Our telepathy operates constantly, we creat by thought and the physical follows.

Telepathy has never been shown to exist.

Consciousness, the thoughts, come first beofre anything else. Before we had a body, we were "us", the individule.

We are the sum of our experiences so we could not exist before we had them - before birth we don't exist.

If one thinks about another in a suggestive -negative way the results, to some extent, will act upon them in a negative way.

Thwn why are there hated celebs that still have great lives - Paris hilton is one that comes to mind.

What projections you send have validity in our reality. The more the numbers of "beleavers" the more solid this reality becomes. We are now focused in this time, this space, this earth as we created it and believe in it.

Load of rubbish - that way the christian god and allah would both exist along with others when they are all supposed to be singular - this is a contradiction.

If a person seems decietful to you, then you decieve yourself. A projection and interpretation of oneself. It all goes around to each.

So if someone seems like a womanizing drunk to me I'm a womanizing drunk? Even when I don't drink and am faith to my wife (for the sake of argument) - That doesn't make sense - it's solipsism

We are all multi dimensional-personalities, and within you lies all the knoweldege of yourself that you will ever need to know.

So no need for schools then and I can perform surgery if I need to?

Ideas generate emotion, like attracts like, so simalar ideas group around you (religions) and this fits your particular system of ideas-reality.

Opposites attract.

Imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that you possess as a physical creature; more power exist in simple imagination than the power it takes to send a rocket to the moon.

Whatdo you base this on ?

You make your reality. You get what you concentrate on-there is no other main rule.

All those straving children would argue with you on this one - as would those with terminal cancer, HIV and anyone who lusts after celebs

In closing I must say I do not wish to offend religious ones. We think and therefore we are.

I don't mean to offend you but most of that was nonsense and the rest of it was gibberish - you may believe it but it's not logical, doesn't make sense and if you examine it, use critical thinking it may really help you.

[THUMPER]

In response to jme:

I'll do my best to answer your questions, remembering that I am not a "know it all" these are just my beliefs based on my experience and intuitive feelings about it.

First off, I appreciate your directness and overall fiestyness; lets move foreward...

jme Responds in kind many overweight people want to be thinner and "wanting that does not make them thinner"; agreed. Wanting something absent a focal point may not bring desired results, having a "full expectation" of what you wish to be can certainly bring more results than a mere "wish". Having a view of who you are-or who you want to be is setting psychic groundwork-others will subconsciously pick up on this to aid you, we work in a co-op. Psychics, we all are, cannot act so lazy as to "make a wish" and poof it happens; we build with the mind and that takes work, constant work.

I commented "we creat what we want, always will, always have; jme responded to the effect: "Our minds produce fit models of what we see around us-evolution has produced something" ect, and further " optical illusions illistrate that what we see isen't always reality", to that effect. On evolution: having a concept of reality will help you more, please do regard the information on my last page; Evolution is time, as time is now, now is when we place it there, difficult concept if you do not study the seth materiels, please do not disregard this as a "non-answer"; think of it in these terms, but Do study the materiels; we agree, in this reality, we are Mankind, we Enforce this by creating a "Past-Future_ and Present"; in Corporeal form as we are, we "Grasp" and maintain a Focul point of "Right Now" this very-second By Constantly rienforcing our corporeal image by showing ourselves our "past" "present" and "future" as we may wish or envision it-historically. I would estimate a Very large portion of our Psychic energy is used to enforce our focal point to this reality. As nutty as this seemed to me many years ago, it will sound nutty to you today, we "place" our past in the past so we can see where we have been- a validation we exist and existed and will exist.
Bear with me, smile or sniker if you must. :)

On telepathy; I personally have had more than one "telepathic event" in my life; therefor we must resort to allowing each to validate telepathy or agreeing to disagree. :)

jme wrote: We are the sum of our experiences so we could not exist before we had them-before birth we did not exist; We have been in existance, in percieved time, forever. The consciousness came before anything else, we choose our lives before we enter the body. How many times have we all looked at "a natural", oh, that guy or girl, she never did this before, why is she so good? Many-many lifetimes before they were good at what they did, "gifted" is a gift you earned by the very experience you speak of; you deny yourself any experience outside of the body as this is something you have been taught, not all deny this; "a natural" denies themselves nothing; althought consciously, they may not be aware of it; summing up " a gift from God" is to deny a being their credit due for learning; there is no place for the lazy in reality. As a retired criminal investigator, I must tell you, the "evidence" and corroborative overlapping information on reincarnation indictaes clearly, people have lived many past lives(as they percieve the past) which is actual bleed over from events occuring as I type, complex for me also...

I wrote earlier that if we think negatively ect it could effect others ect; I actually wrote that people will react to negative suggestions Only if they are like minded, a negative minded person, be it Paris Hilton or not, will react, to a degree, to your negative thoughts regarding her If she is of like mind, Like attracts like...Paris Hilton appears pretty happy to me and not in the least negative; and therefore, one might start to see how no one has anything over you, no one. If we do not buiy into thier negativity, it's water off our back as we refuse to accept it. Keeping in mind, all is to a degree, there is not "formula" or magic as we are a co-op of reality. So, if you want to bend a spoon, make no demands, learn to ask it to bend.

Regarding our projecting our reality: jme wrote to the effect that "God and Allah" and others are singular and therefore, based on my views it must be "rubbish". I am not pisitive what was siad; however, "God" "Allah" and any other "God" in the reality of many do exist, to an extent; many believe each are real and therefore, they are, to an extent. Psychic reality has as much validation as corporeal reality, this is something most can't grasp. Your very deep rooted beliefs are encased in concrete, the very substance that binds you to limited views of your existance, no disrespect intended. I have not contradicted myself in any way; if you believe I have, please expand and we can discuss it openly.

jme wrote "if someone seems like a womanizing drunk ect"; this response I do not understand, please clarify.

In response to my saying " We are all multidemensional personalities and within each lies the knoweledge of oneself ect" jme responded to the effect " 'So, no need for schools then and I can perform surguery" if I need to".

I don't fully understand what is being said here; purhaps it was meant that we have all this knowledge within ourselves why go to Medical school?

Ok, if this is a correct interpretation I must reply that the "knowledge I speak of is knowledge of yourself, your being, who you are, what you are. Most people are grounded in a corporeal existance, they see and believe what they see-hear and learn Right now in this life time perception. How can one hope to have the knoweledge of many disciplines if they fail to acknowledge whom they are to begin education? If, one were to gain a higher consciouisness and have the ability to recall a past life in which they were a Doctor, then and only then can they draw from that past life as the lessons learned there are "owned" by them.

Regarding emotions attracting like emotions; oil is unlike water and we see they cannot "mix"; yet we see when a drop of water hits a lake it is gone-enveloped and forver part of the lake; there is no mistake that "opposites" do not attract, only in personalities might one see this and then, even then they part ways...attraction can be temporay unless there is co-operativness.

Imagination: I stated imagination is the most concentrated form of energy that one can possess. I say this based on Logic and studies I agree upon. Imagination is the very root of EVERYTHING. Christianity teaches that GOD "creats" if so, I submit GOD himself has the best imagination, absent that, what could GOD have made? That my friend is power.

If "GOD" was simply kind-gentle-powerful and all knowing, what could he do without having any imagination? Imagination is the "calling up" of knoweldege and the GOD of Christianity has "more than the sum of all that is". I sense imagination is where the rubber meets the road; ie, WE are the collective-creators.:)

Briefly, on GOD-ALLAH;is much more than any religion can give them credit for. Imagine, if you would, GOD being ALL. A simple word, ALL intelligence, all learned disciplines, religions, ALL, having ALL points of view GOD is more than we can "imagine".

Regarding "starving children" HIV" as I said we make our own reality. Don't missinterpret what I said; we do make what we are, we also make what is. I never stated we "consciously" make it happen as we like it that way; we subconsciously make things happen based on a belief system we have created. This goes back to percieved "good and evil". We also discussed the furniture issue and this is part of it, moving it around would creat a different system. This is something mankind must work on en-mass. It will happen, as time after all is simple perception.


In closing jme comments my views are nonsense-gibberish and illogical and makes no sense upon examination; further, I am advised to take a critical thinking class.

I will close with the response that the above response is very premature at this time. I would like an intelligent response from jme as soon as practical. I do sense a high state of aggitation-maybe confusion. This materiel has taken some time to comprehend for me and I think if you wish to tear it down do so by learning what it is about first; this is NOT an attack on you.

I will submit this: of all the studies I have ever done, including religious text, I would always show proper respect despite that I may not agree with something; this I find in short supply from a "THEOLOGY WEB".

[mentored1]

well met Thumper... Thanks for replying...

The sarcasm of the folks here at TWEB is an acquired taste; you get used to it. You have to understand that there are so many folks who just pop up and post a bunch of nonsense and never appear again - and there's no way to know who's who... Hence the bitter comments. Not an excuse for it, just an explanation..

You comment religions do not creat good or evil but only present the context differently. I disagree, religions have given the very definition of good and evil as we interpret it, no harm done, just more words for acts that have gone on before religions in our terms of time.

Perhaps it is a divergence of views then. Did one creature kill another one before any religious system of mankind arose? Okay... Did one male sleep with the mate of another male at opportunity before any religious system arose?

Assuming that the acts that came to be called "sinful" were present before the system that called them such appeared then Religion did not invent the act itself - it only associated it with a category. Religion took the very basic acts drawing on pain and pleasure and repackaged them.

Very primitive societies who have spiritual views vastly different from Western types have taboos as well - even some animals avoid certain acts as if they were "mortal sins". Humans only attach symbols to that which already is.

Your comments on "negativity" could imply "evil" as You percieve it; do to your "Adam" comment I'd guess your Christian and that's fine with me, I accept you as you are. Your beliefs are your furniture, keep them, or toss them, or rearrange them...your preceptions change; when things move consciousness is hightend.

The [b]?[/?] near my profile information at the top indicates Agnostic. I could have used some example from the Koran or other holy literature but that one is easily recognized...

Suffice to say that I don't have any solid perceptions - that's why I'm willing to discuss the issues with you and see where you're coming from. I'm not even sure if the furniture is real or not!

Sometimes it's hard to grasp anything outside our six senses we use each day; our minds, we rarely use (yes, I see them coming with coimments already:) to the extent it can operate.

I'm curious to know what there is to grasp beyond what our senses and perceptions reveal? You acquire sensory information which is passed through all levels and filters and "interpreted" into a perception. What else can there be that isn't accounted for by these sensations, perceptions, and the relations we make amongst them?

We are grounded in "the right now", we see the past as behind us and the future as up ahead; all are happening right now in many-many different ways, our subconsciousness is aware of it all, our consciousness is not.

There are some concepts here that I don't quite grasp...
How do we go about becoming conscious of what we are not conscious of? How is a subconscious (by implication not actively conscious) aware of anything? Whether time is illusory or not it is the working model of existence, it is the frame that we find ourselves in.

You are living many-lives right now in many places and in many times as you percieve time. This subject is pretty big as it sums up alot. We can get into it whenever you want. Simply put, we see what we expect to see....right now; case in point, in Vietnam, 1968, a Bhudist Monk committed "suicide" by dousing himself with gas and not moving as he burned up; how did he do that? He was able to move his consciousness away from the body and they became separate. Point, we can gain enlightened-consciousness if we wish.

Tentatively, I agree that consciousness can be changed if we desire...

In regards to the "many lives" concept you'll need to elaborate on that a bit. Suffice to say that I don't dismiss the possibility as I am reluctant to relegate my more vivid dreams to the role of illusions and fantasy, but I have only my awareness of this immediate existence: how do you propose to gain awareness of another existence in a different time and place?

Your comments " if we take away perception ( more pointedly consciousness) then how do you propose to go about understanding the nature of reality"; I agree with you 100%; perception of our "current" reality is Grounded to our skinsuits-Earth as we "see it"-we have, most of us, limited views as we are taught that life is the skinsuit, the hard earth and not much more other than religiouns ect

As we know it, this earth-bound existence, we require consciousness to know reality in any sense. We must be aware of something for it to exist to us. We are aware and conscious of our bodies, our planet, and so forth.

How do you propose to understand what we are NOT aware of it if it is not part of our conscious experience?
Where do we look to understand that the body, the planet, and the immediate existence we have is not the only reality available?
And how do you KNOW that an alternative does in fact exist if you cannot be conscious of it in this existence?


take care