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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Does preterism lead to atheism?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    Please don't respond to this post emotionally, which I understand will be twice as hard for you as a woman, but please. I am saying all of this for your benefit as well as those reading.
    WOW..... just wow.

    Go take your sexism somewhere else.

    At the very least, if futurism is the proper interpretation and moreover if the post-tribulational rapture is the proper sub-interpretation, then this matter is indeed a matter of life and death, is it not? Other than begging the question, how do you know that you have time to "wait and see?"
    I don't think it's going to affect your chances of going to heaven if you believe in preterism or futurism... as long as you have faith in Christ you are saved.
    "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
    -Unknown

    "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
      WOW..... just wow.

      Go take your sexism somewhere else.



      I don't think it's going to affect your chances of going to heaven if you believe in preterism or futurism... as long as you have faith in Christ you are saved.
      You were so busy white knighting that you didn't notice that the question is whether eschatology is a matter of life and death, not salvation or damnation.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Darfius View Post
        You were so busy white knighting that you didn't notice that the question is whether eschatology is a matter of life and death, not salvation or damnation.
        bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha.

        1."White Knighting"?

        Go back to 4chan bud.
        2. Again, even if we get to a dystopian government, why the hell would they kill preterists?
        "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
        -Unknown

        "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


        I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I support the :
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
          bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha.

          1."White Knighting"?

          Go back to 4chan bud.
          2. Again, even if we get to a dystopian government, why the hell would they kill preterists?
          That's the point, "bud". Preterists are much less likely to be killed as tribulational saints because they will find it far easier to rationalize actions taken to stay alive without assigning any eschatological or spiritual meaning to said actions. Plot twist, saving your life then will mean losing it.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
            bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha.

            1."White Knighting"?

            Go back to 4chan bud.
            2. Again, even if we get to a dystopian government, why the hell would they kill preterists?
            Unless preterists worship the "image of beast" they would be killed.

            Revelation 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

            Sounds like a life or death scenario to me.

            Yeah, what Darfius said to CBW was wrong, but if he's right about futurism(specifically post-tribulational rapture), then this is a life or death issue.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
              That's the point, "bud". Preterists are much less likely to be killed as tribulational saints because they will find it far easier to rationalize actions taken to stay alive without assigning any eschatological or spiritual meaning to said actions. Plot twist, saving your life then will mean losing it.
              I'm not a preterist, but that is certainly a very uncharitable way to view them IMO.

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              • #37
                Seriously? Even if post-trib future happened, what could we do about it? And how could we even know if we're the "lucky" generation to see the end times? I bet every generation has thought Jesus would come back then. Well, it's impossible to know when Jesus is coming back, so why worry about it? Anyway, there is only a finite amount of things we can learn now, so why make too much of it? If we're wrong about a nonprimary, then we'll get to learn more later. It just seems like a waste of time to argue about the end times when we could be serving others and spreading the gospel. In general.
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  Unless preterists worship the "image of beast" they would be killed.

                  Revelation 13:14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

                  Sounds like a life or death scenario to me.

                  Yeah, what Darfius said to CBW was wrong, but if he's right about futurism(specifically post-tribulational rapture), then this is a life or death issue.
                  I don't think preterism necessarily excludes the possibility of multiple fulfillments of prophecy, so it's theoretically possible that a dystopian beast-worshipping government could arise regardless of which eschatological view is true. And if such a government arose, doesn't Jesus imply in Matthew 24:24 that the elect will not be deceived? It seems that no matter what happens, the only way you could argue that preterists would choose the wrong action is by asserting that no preterists are part of the elect...a road that I'm sure you're bright enough to not take.

                  Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  I'm not a preterist, but that is certainly a very uncharitable way to view them IMO.
                  You think he cares?
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                  • #39
                    Yep! Multiple fulfillment is also possible! I'm just annoyed at the guys that claim Jesus will come back at a certain date even though we can't know when He'll come back. Presumably before the extinction of our species since some won't go to sleep and all be changed.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
                      WOW..... just wow.

                      Go take your sexism somewhere else.
                      I think it's hilarious.

                      "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
                      "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
                      Katniss Everdeen


                      Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
                        I think it's hilarious.
                        What? The doofus that thinks ladies are twice as emotional as boys? I suppose so. More like an eyeroll.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                          That's all good, but I have presented evidence from a leading Christian apologist, maybe the best in the world, and a 15 year partial preterist.
                          No, you haven't. Roderick E was, like Sam Frost, a hyperpreterist. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie easily exposed by merely reading the link you gave to Roderick E.'s blog.

                          What is wrong with you? You didn't use to be this trollish.
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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            No, you haven't. Roderick E was, like Sam Frost, a hyperpreterist. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie easily exposed by merely reading the link you gave to Roderick E.'s blog.

                            What is wrong with you? You didn't use to be this trollish.
                            Someone has also been making very creepy comments on Dee Dee's youtube, too...

                            "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
                            "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
                            Katniss Everdeen


                            Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

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                            • #44
                              Hey, jph of tektontv is also a orthodox/partial preterist! Maybe that guy'll bug him too?
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                Oh. I guess politics just has a negative connotation to it. But that would be worldly politics, right? There can be a good politics and not just the bad kind?
                                Sure, like most human things it is what we make of it. We tend to only think of governmental affairs as politics but it really is in every group, especially evident when the group is organized or organizing.

                                I argued in a blog post once that abdicating the political field is a bad thing. Government has a huge impact on people's lives, the same people we as Christians are supposed to love. In a democratic republic especially when we sit down and shut up someone else will fill the void but not in a good way.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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