The Unitarian

[37818]

Individual Jews have believed all sorts of things, but that doesn't change what Judaism is. We have an unbroken chain of transmission for Torah direct from Moses. Judaism itself has always been monotheistic.

This henotheistic thing isn't defined well enough to matter to Judaism. For example, I recognize that some people worship a deity named jesus. It is a big leap to then assume that I believe such an entity ever had any existence.

NT Christians worship the same G-d as Moses worshipped (see John 4:22 & John 5:46-47). See Gensis 3:22.

[shunyadragon]

NT Christians worship the same G-d as Moses worshipped (see John 4:22 & John 5:46-47). See Gensis 3:22.

Jews do not believe this is so.

[apostoli]

Individual Jews have believed all sorts of things, but that doesn't change what Judaism is. We have an unbroken chain of transmission for Torah direct from Moses. Judaism itself has always been monotheistic.

This henotheistic thing isn't defined well enough to matter to Judaism. For example, I recognize that some people worship a deity named jesus. It is a big leap to then assume that I believe such an entity ever had any existence.

Unfortunately, history refutes you as any educated Jew would be happy to advise you. Take King David for instance: Either he was ignorant of Moses' ordinances or he just ignored them! After all, he upsurped the high priesthood making himself high priest even though he was not a Cohan. He wasn't even a Levite! Hence the Melchizedek claim. David didn't even know how to carry the Ark. And when YHWH struck down Uzzah, David cursed YHWH (2 Samuel 6) Scripture even has it that David was worshipped in equivalence to YHWH (see 1 Chron 29:12 "and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king". (KJV)).

Apart from this we have the witness of 2 Kings 17 especially vs34. Even after the Assyrian exile and return, they continued to worship other gods...

[apostoli]

This is more in line with the Baha'i beliefs and view of NT scripture.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...ysical-at-all/

[37818]

Jews do not believe this is so.

Do not believe salvation is of Judaism?

[Scorching Wizard]

Jews do not believe this is so.

True.

[Scorching Wizard]

Unfortunately, history refutes you as any educated Jew would be happy to advise you.

ROFL. I'm probably the only educated Jew that you know. In any case, this is way off topic and I'm not going to respond to it. I just gave an example for that henotheistic concept.

[37818]

True.

So you do not believe the first century Jews who were apart of the founding of Christianity believed the Torah?

[shunyadragon]

Do not believe salvation is of Judaism?

Yes, the Jews believe in salvation, but they do not believe in a Trinitarian God, nor that Jesus Christ was God incarnate, neither do the Baha'is believe this as a Doctrine defining the nature God, which cannot be defined.

[shunyadragon]

I thought it might be...or rather hoped it would be. As a youth one my friends had a brother-in-law who was high up in the Hare Krishna movement. From him I learnt of "maya" (?) = "all things material are an illusion" (?) It was so may decades ago I've forgotten the nitty gritty but I have a vague recollection of the concepts, and I don't see them as in conflict with Christian sensibilities...

I do not see a necessary conflict between different religious views of the nature of human existence, because to a certain extent all these world views represent a limited human cultural view of the nature of God and our physical existences. There are elements of the truth of our spiritual reality in all the religions as we evolve universally as spiritual beings. The first mistake individual religion, churches and beliefs make is their view is the only possible true view of the nature of our spiritual and physical reality.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...ysical-at-all/

The present scientific view of the nature of the Quantum World is a very interesting topic, but I do not believe it can be concluded that the physical world is an 'illusion' as being absolutely nothing as the Vedic (Hindu) proposes based on this.

What is described as the illusion of the nature of our physical world is being actually physical in nature as we perceive it. The underlying reality of the physical world is the more nebulous and still physical Quantum World.

[rogue06]

Yes, the Jews believe in salvation, but they do not believe in a Trinitarian God, nor that Jesus Christ was God incarnate, neither do the Baha'is believe this as a Doctrine defining the nature God, which cannot be defined.

Well, yeah. Because if they did then they would be Christians.

[Scorching Wizard]

So you do not believe the first century Jews who were apart of the founding of Christianity believed the Torah?

off-topic.

[Scorching Wizard]

Yes, the Jews believe in salvation...

off-.... aargh!

Judaism and Christianity have two completely different definitions for this word. In Judaism, the Torah only uses this word in the national sense, as in national salvation from war. Whereas in Christianity, the word salvation is individual and ties in to their personal sin.

[shunyadragon]

Well, yeah. Because if they did then they would be Christians.

I guess you taking the egocentric view that only Christians believe in salvation
.
The reality is most Theists (in the broad definition of the word including Buddhists) believe in salvation, but of course different beliefs define it differently.

[shunyadragon]

off-.... aargh!

Judaism and Christianity have two completely different definitions for this word. In Judaism, the Torah only uses this word in the national sense, as in national salvation from war. Whereas in Christianity, the word salvation is individual and ties in to their personal sin.

I did not say what the definition of salvation Christians use is what the Jews believe in, but it is actually variable among Jews as to what being saved means, but the following is consistent with many Jews:



http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq...faq/12-37.html

Back somewhat to the topic most Unitarians believe in the 'Salvation of Humanity' is by humanist ideals, principles and teachings exemplified by the Humanist Manifesto.

Some if not many Jews embrace the 'Humanist Salvation' as far as the 'Salvation of Humanity.'