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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

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  • #16
    Ah, for one my bad KG, I didn't see your comment before my second post, but that is exactly what I'm getting at. How common is it do you all think that people ignore the scriptures that for example 37818 posted (except for Acts 1? I don't see you meaning).

    This post isn't so much a discussion about the actual eschatological event (whatever form that will take is a discussion we can have in an Eschatologies thread), so much as it is about the seeming lack of knowledge upon it by the laity. I think we can know how important this is when we look to the Scriptures pointed out, especially 1 Corinthians 15, to see that this is a topic worthy of discussion, and also the importance of this as a defense against Gnostic critiques of the material.

    I suppose to answer my own question, the progressive and liberal branches of the church probably miss the point entirely, along with potentially some evangelicals. It is a wrong teaching that should be taught against. Is it however heresy to deny a general resurrection?

    I've got a lot of questions and not many answers. :)
    Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
      Ah, for one my bad KG, I didn't see your comment before my second post, but that is exactly what I'm getting at. How common is it do you all think that people ignore the scriptures that for example 37818 posted (except for Acts 1? I don't see you meaning).

      This post isn't so much a discussion about the actual eschatological event (whatever form that will take is a discussion we can have in an Eschatologies thread), so much as it is about the seeming lack of knowledge upon it by the laity. I think we can know how important this is when we look to the Scriptures pointed out, especially 1 Corinthians 15, to see that this is a topic worthy of discussion, and also the importance of this as a defense against Gnostic critiques of the material.

      I suppose to answer my own question, the progressive and liberal branches of the church probably miss the point entirely, along with potentially some evangelicals. It is a wrong teaching that should be taught against. Is it however heresy to deny a general resurrection?

      I've got a lot of questions and not many answers. :)
      Obviously I'm not the final arbiter of orthodoxy but I would consider a denial of general resurrection to be a heresy because it's mentioned in the Nicene Creed: " He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead", and it was something Jesus and Paul frequently emphasized.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #18
        The reason I bring up the thing about disabilities is because I've been reading a book about Christianity and disabilities by Amos Yong. He says he has a problem with the idea that we say that all disabilities go away in heaven because it seems offensive to people with disabilities and because some people's identities are wrapped up with them (especially autism spectrum type disabilities). I'm not done with the book but I'm not at all convinced by his arguments (and of course they're more complicated than the quick summary I provided here).
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          Obviously I'm not the final arbiter of orthodoxy but I would consider a denial of general resurrection to be a heresy because it's mentioned in the Nicene Creed: " He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead", and it was something Jesus and Paul frequently emphasized.
          Yeah, it's kind of an important part of the Bible.

          Remember the discourse between Jesus and Mary and Martha (John 11-ish) --- "my brother will rise again eventually"... "I AM the resurrection and the life..."
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            The reason I bring up the thing about disabilities is because I've been reading a book about Christianity and disabilities by Amos Yong. He says he has a problem with the idea that we say that all disabilities go away in heaven because it seems offensive to people with disabilities and because some people's identities are wrapped up with them (especially autism spectrum type disabilities). I'm not done with the book but I'm not at all convinced by his arguments (and of course they're more complicated than the quick summary I provided here).
            I've never met anybody with a disability who said, "yeah, I sure hope I still have this in Heaven". I would be cool with not missing half of my right hand's fingers.

            HOWEVER -- if it meant NOT going to Heaven, I'd gladly go with my minor inconvenience.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by princesa View Post
              is the body in bodily resurrection a physical or spiritual body?
              Both. This is a false dichotomy.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                Invulnerable?
                I think it will be less a matter of invulnerability (notice "I think") as a matter of the elimination of all dangers.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  The reason I bring up the thing about disabilities is because I've been reading a book about Christianity and disabilities by Amos Yong. He says he has a problem with the idea that we say that all disabilities go away in heaven because it seems offensive to people with disabilities and because some people's identities are wrapped up with them (especially autism spectrum type disabilities). I'm not done with the book but I'm not at all convinced by his arguments (and of course they're more complicated than the quick summary I provided here).
                  Honestly, who cares? We shall know as we are known.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I also wonder if people with disabilities will have them cured in heaven or not. One could argue that Jesus says it is possible to enter with only one eye, but who knows?
                    Why then do the immortal need medicine? Remember Jesus in His resurrected body still had the wound in His side and the holes of the nails. Then Jesus' words, ". . . it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire." -- Matthew 18:8.

                    ". . . the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." -- Revelation 22:2.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                      . . . that for example 37818 posted (except for Acts 1? I don't see you meaning).
                      Acts 1:11 refers to Christ's bodily return. The same way He left, is how He will return. And when He returns, the He will bring those to be resurrected with Him. (1 Thessalonians 4:14.)
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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                      • #26
                        Yes 37818, I know and I agree with you. I just don't see as strong a connection between it and the others for use as a proof text.

                        But this is not an appropriate thread to have an eschalogical conversation. This thread is for discussion on how it relates to the laity.
                        Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                          Now, I think we all know that a physical resurrection of the dead has been promised to us. Do you think most Christians even realize that it will happen? How big of an issue is it do you think for those who incorrectly plan on ditching their bodies for Heaven, rather than wearing a new body into Heaven?
                          I think that for many the concept is unclear. One key question is how Christians conceive heaven. Do they think of it a place far removed and completely other than the earth? Or do they see the vision of the New Jerusalem coming down out of the new heaven to the new earth?

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                          • #28
                            There is absolutely no need for resurrection. All this talk about human embodiment is ridiculous. Glorification consists of immortal, immaterial "souls"/spirits floating about in "heaven" throughout the ceaseless ages with intangible harps. No bodies are required.
                            For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                              There is absolutely no need for resurrection. All this talk about human embodiment is ridiculous. Glorification consists of immortal, immaterial "souls"/spirits floating about in "heaven" throughout the ceaseless ages with intangible harps. No bodies are required.
                              Did you forget the sarcasm tags, or are you serious?
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I would think the part about "intangible harps" indicates sarcasm.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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