Noah's Ark Found in Iran?!

[grmorton]

Y'know, it really puts me into a slow burn when I see stories like this Iraq ark one.

"Looks like" "appears to be" "preliminary results indicate....(insert anything that might lead the imaginative to think your position might be correct)*....

Why do so many Christians willingly skip behind a pied piper with a book to sell, even when it's in-your-face obvious that said piper has a lot to gain by making folks believe that he has found something that agrees with their beliefs? And sans conclusive evidence? And so predictably?

The story of the pied piper is a charming tale and the lesson is lost on many of us. So let us examine another nursery story, perhaps one that is more accessable. The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

The boy who cried "wolf" did so when there was no wolf, and did so frequently. His pronouncements were so many and so quickly disproven that when he actually encountered a wolf not a soul believed him.

In the "wolf" tale, only the boy gets eaten. But in the case of the "arks" we see touted, the victim pool is a bit broader. Our faith gets perceived by many as the collective beliefs of the gullible, and prima facie evidence that there is indeed one born every minute. These goofy "discoveries" discredit Christianity and are a stumbling block to belief by those who are not Christian.

The Christian community would be better served by waiting until someone has presented proof that something is exactly what the discoverers claim it is before we hop on the bandwagon and use it as proof that a Biblical account is accurate.

Remember the Piltdown man? I'll bet we all know what that was about. Do we think that we can present whole tribes of similar fiascos to the unsaved and then reasonably expect that we have aided them in finding faith?

Pearls to you, my fellow Christian!

[grmorton]

Gr, I know the Ark was. I don't know where it is or how much is left of it. If found it would be a great archelogical find and I would be intellectually fascinated. The Ark would be something true and objective from one of the vaguest periods of Biblical accounting.

I would correct that statement. I believe the ark was. I don't know the ark was as I know the sky is blue. And while you think it would be great to find it, that alone doesn't make every claim by any ol' idiot worthy of being believed.

No, a conservative Christian who believes in objective truth. Where did you get the notion that I didn't?[/quote]

Because of your statement: "At this point I have a guarded hopeful optimism because it would be tons of fun for the Ark to be up there."

That statement doesn't say, "At this point I have a guarded hopeful optimisim because I believe it is true". It says you have that optimism because you think it would be fun to find it. That is an awful reason to have guarded hopeful optimism and shows that you won't have much scepticism about the nutcases out there who are ready to lead you to La-La land.

Oh, well, I don't think Scientists are objective. Sorry. Also science doesn't change with the facts, science is a method, not a system of organized, true and objective facts. It's methodology that is concerned with discovering what those facts are.

Let's see, you know that science doesn't change because you practice in what area of science???? I love it when outsiders say such silly things. My bet is (and I might be wrong) that you have almost zero scientific education or work experience. How many science books (not creationist rags) do you have in your library? What science articles have you published so that we can judge whether or not you are qualified to actually judge what science does or doesnt do?

[xtreem5150ahm]

I would correct that statement. I believe the ark was. I don't know the ark was as I know the sky is blue. And while you think it would be great to find it, that alone doesn't make every claim by any ol' idiot worthy of being believed.

No, a conservative Christian who believes in objective truth. Where did you get the notion that I didn't?

Because of your statement: "At this point I have a guarded hopeful optimism because it would be tons of fun for the Ark to be up there."

That statement doesn't say, "At this point I have a guarded hopeful optimisim because I believe it is true". It says you have that optimism because you think it would be fun to find it. That is an awful reason to have guarded hopeful optimism and shows that you won't have much scepticism about the nutcases out there who are ready to lead you to La-La land.



Let's see, you know that science doesn't change because you practice in what area of science???? I love it when outsiders say such silly things. My bet is (and I might be wrong) that you have almost zero scientific education or work experience. How many science books (not creationist rags) do you have in your library? What science articles have you published so that we can judge whether or not you are qualified to actually judge what science does or doesnt do?

[/quote]

Hi Dr. Morton,

Just a few questions for you. All of which are intended with respect and Christian love.

You are Christian, right?
Why?... i mean, what makes you believe that Jesus is Christ?
You dont believe in a global, world wide flood of Noah's day, right?
Why not?

I ask this because of:

Scripture Verse:

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Honest, this was not meant to offend. I hope it is not taken that way.

God Bless,
johnny


edited to correct a quote tag error (mine)

[lao tzu]

Hi Dr. Morton,

Just a few questions for you. All of which are intended with respect and Christian love.

You are Christian, right?
Why?... i mean, what makes you believe that Jesus is Christ?
You dont believe in a global, world wide flood of Noah's day, right?
Why not?

<snip>

God Bless,
johnny


edited to correct a quote tag error (mine)

Greetings, 5150,

Glenn is a well-published geophysicist, but he does not have a doctorate. (I personally believe that his work could be reconstructed into a dissertation if he ever felt the need.) If you're interested in his story, you could do little better than to check out his site. There's a link in his signature. The short version is that after decades of working and writing for the YEC movement, his personal integrity required him to change his views. He remains a christian, but he requires his faith to conform to the readily available facts.

As ever, Jesse

[neocon_voter]

Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm

Hi Dr. Morton,

Just a few questions for you. All of which are intended with respect and Christian love.

You are Christian, right?
Why?... i mean, what makes you believe that Jesus is Christ?
You dont believe in a global, world wide flood of Noah's day, right?
Why not?

I ask this because of:

Scripture Verse:

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Honest, this was not meant to offend. I hope it is not taken that way.

God Bless,
johnny

edited to correct a quote tag error (mine)

Christians have to work out their own soteriology and interpretation of Scripture (that is if they take Scripture into consideration at all vis-a-vis Jesus)
I personally base my Christianity on what Jesus actually said as recorded in Scripture. I suppose some Christians have alligned themselves to Jesus not based on what He said, or perhaps they have decided for themselves what He taught or what they would like for Him to have taught. Maybe they pick and choose, I don't know what they base their Christianity. IMO, the New Testament is the only valid source for the sayings and teachings of Jesus. If a person is going to be a 'Jesus-follower', you would think they would consider the object of their allegiance to be honest.

Jesus says that if you don't believe Moses, neither will you believe Jesus; and Genesis is one of Moses' Books.

"Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 45-47"
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

and in the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus:
"Gospel of Luke, Chapter 16, verses 27-31"
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Now, as for me, if I have to make a choice, I am going to have to at least take Jesus Christ at His Word.

Neocon_Voter

[Hail Mary]

If someone already posted this, please forgive me, I couldn't find it. Here's the google map link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&t=k&i...,0.055017&om=1

You can't zoom in any further, but the middle of the picture doesn't look any different from the surrounding ridges of the mountain.

[Dr.GH]

Before you yawn,

before I barf ...

just check out this link, folks: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=50857. There are pics from the expedition find as well. I am a bit skeptical, but if this does turn out to be true, I wonder how geologists will explain away why petrified wood planks, cleanly cut at 90 degree angles are doing protruding from a mountain slope at over 15,000 feet elevation with marine fossils embedded inside.

Try and cut a plank at a 90 degree anything before the invention of saws. Try and make a boat out of slate and meta-volcanic shale.

High elevation means low oxygen. No wonder they couldn't see the rocks in front of them.

I hope that subsequent investigations of the site are conducted with scientists from around the world and that the media doesn't ignore the story.

If there are any competent geologists or archaeologists along, it will be the end of this particular creationist fraud.

I volunteer.

Why are these frauds ignored by creationists at the same time they endlessly yammer about Piltdown man? After all, Piltdown Man was exposed as a fraud by scientists, not creationists. I think that creationists should start to clean their own tent.

[neocon_voter]

Why are these frauds ignored by creationists at the same time they endlessly yammer about Piltdown man? After all, Piltdown Man was exposed as a fraud by scientists, not creationists. I think that creationists should start to clean their own tent.

Right-on brother! Not to mention Nebraska Man and Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten's 'Hahnhöfersand Man', a fraud that means "Anthropology is going to have to completely revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 years ago," said Thomas Terberger, the archaeologist who discovered the hoax.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...418025,00.html

Neocon_Voter

[Minnesota]

I think that creationists should start to clean their own tent.

They're such a duplicitous lot they're all afraid that if they start squealing on one of their own, one of their own will turn around a squeal on them. So don't hold your breath.

[WaterOfOblivion]

I "yammer" about "Piltdown Man" because it was a hoax. It's germain because of it's area, namely that of archeology and creation and evolution. I don't cite it as a way of degrading the evolutionist argument, but of slamming all frauds. Naming the "ark" find in Iran a possible "Piltdown Boat" is a way of warning it's discoverers that they are evil on that level if not more so by hoaxing us, if they have in fact hoaxed us.

I was the first in this thread to associate the "find" of the ark in Iran as a possible "Piltdown Boat".

[grmorton]

Hi Dr. Morton,

I am not a Ph. D.

Just a few questions for you. All of which are intended with respect and Christian love.

You are Christian, right?

yes. For about 37 years

Why?... i mean, what makes you believe that Jesus is Christ?

Things that happened in my life.

You dont believe in a global, world wide flood of Noah's day, right?
Why not?

The geologic evidence doesn't support the concept that there was a global flood. see the articles at http://home.entouch.net/dmd/geology.htm

I ask this because of:

Scripture Verse:

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Honest, this was not meant to offend. I hope it is not taken that way.

God Bless,
johnny

Well, if my concept of the flood were to be true, it would fit those verses. See http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1997/PSCF12-97Morton.html

[grmorton]

Greetings, 5150,

Glenn is a well-published geophysicist, but he does not have a doctorate. (I personally believe that his work could be reconstructed into a dissertation if he ever felt the need.)

Since I have never felt limited by not having a Ph. D. and have done things like getting patents submitted, publishing scientific papers, being a director of technology for my company, I see no reason to waste my time getting a piece of paper. I sometimes like it when a Ph. D. in geology or geophysics underestimates me. They never do it a second time.

[grmorton]

If someone already posted this, please forgive me, I couldn't find it. Here's the google map link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&t=k&i...,0.055017&om=1

You can't zoom in any further, but the middle of the picture doesn't look any different from the surrounding ridges of the mountain.

I see the ark!!!!! halleluyah! It is one of the black pixels, I am sure of it!

[grmorton]

Right-on brother! Not to mention Nebraska Man and Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten's 'Hahnhöfersand Man', a fraud that means "Anthropology is going to have to completely revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 years ago," said Thomas Terberger, the archaeologist who discovered the hoax.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...418025,00.html

Neocon_Voter

It was an archaeologist who found it to be a hoax, but it wasn't a creationist. They don't do any scientific leg-work.

[grmorton]

I "yammer" about "Piltdown Man" because it was a hoax. It's germain because of it's area, namely that of archeology and creation and evolution. I don't cite it as a way of degrading the evolutionist argument, but of slamming all frauds. Naming the "ark" find in Iran a possible "Piltdown Boat" is a way of warning it's discoverers that they are evil on that level if not more so by hoaxing us, if they have in fact hoaxed us.

I was the first in this thread to associate the "find" of the ark in Iran as a possible "Piltdown Boat".

I, for one, would commend you for your skepticism.

Again, accepting that we could be deceived by hoaxers, it is said that it is already proven to be petrified wood. There are a number of photgraphs of other parts that are in fact wood, or were in fact wood.

If it were petrified wood, it would be incapable of being carbon dated. The hoaxers in this instance claim that carbon dating is on going, even though the lab claims to deliver results in 2-30 days. They can't have it both ways. Petrified wood can not be dated. Anyone who believes this sordid tale from these guys is sadly mistaken and is quite gullible.