Go Get 'Em, Girls

[Glenn P]

Well, you may believe you some judiciary prescience, but I think I and the rest of the nation will wait for a decision from the courts.

So you're happy just to let a court overule religious freedom - or any freedom I guess - and then say "well, if the court says it, it's constitutional and okie dokie by me!"

Hello Mr Minnesota, meet Mr Meaning. Mr meaning, meet Minnesota. I don't believe you've met before. In fact i now you haven't. Ever. Minnesota, you'd be fascinated by Mr Meaning's line of work. He's into connecting words, like words in a constitution, with concepts in the real world, concepts that actually hold, even if a court doesn't want them to. Amazing stuff, really.

You may believe in some judicial activism, but I think the people who are concerned that rights are upheld as they were intended to be when they were first protected should be shocked that the case was even considered a serious one.

[Glenn P]

I wouldn't. But what's the connection? one is a chosen belief and the other is an orientation.

You put the words "chosen belief" together, not me. So since you can so easily do that: Right now, choose to believe that you are a creationist. Do it for five minutes, believe creationism. Then get back to us all and tell us what it was like.

[bigsplit]

Legally speaking, IMO, the school is right, it can kick the girls out. From a religous respect, I, for the life of me, cannot understand why a Christian institution would expel two children when according to its own faith they desparately need the Biblical education. Maybe Jesus should have let them stone the prostitute, that way he could never have told her to sin no more and she would be doomed to hell....is that the Church's intentions for these girls or should they be desparately trying to keep them within the influence of the faith. It seems Christianity is so defensive in protecting itself from what it sees as right and wrong that it is abandoning its mission of helping sinners see what is acceptable Christian behavior. To listen to some, Christians should build a wall around the faith to keep the undesirables out. We cannot protect our Children from temptation, such acts are in vain, the world itself is temptation. I think it is shamefully unChristian to expell the girls, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If the Church truely wants to protect itself, it should protect its ultimate mission from God.....to walk thought the valley of the shadow of death, fearing no evil...where is the faith in today's politically motivated Church....it has become perverted as it has tried to build his house on the sands of politics.

[Darth Executor]

Legally speaking, IMO, the school is right, it can kick the girls out. From a religous respect, I, for the life of me, cannot understand why a Christian institution would expel two children when according to its own faith they desparately need the Biblical education. Maybe Jesus should have let them stone the prostitute, that way he could never have told her to sin no more and she would be doomed to hell....is that the Church's intentions for these girls or should they be desparately trying to keep them within the influence of the faith. It seems Christianity is so defensive in protecting itself from what it sees as right and wrong that it is abandoning its mission of helping sinners see what is acceptable Christian behavior. To listen to some, Christians should build a wall around the faith to keep the undesirables out. We cannot protect our Children from temptation, such acts are in vain, the world itself is temptation. I think it is shamefully unChristian to expell the girls, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If the Church truely wants to protect itself, it should protect its ultimate mission from God.....to walk thought the valley of the shadow of death, fearing no evil...where is the faith in today's politically motivated Church....it has become perverted as it has tried to build his house on the sands of politics.

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.

It seems that Paul had no problem with expelling sinners.

[Mountain Man]

And are you going to be similiarly pleased when the courts next decide that a private religious institution is not allowed to teach from the Bible because it some how violates somebody's rights?

Quit being silly.

Which comment of mine was silly, that a precedent like this could lead to the banning of Biblical teaching in private religious institutions or that you'll applaud it?

[Pilgrim]

Aside from their right to sue, my only question is why the girls and their parents would want to be affiliated with a religion that doesn't want the girls.

It seems to me they were trying to make a statement. They probably enrolled in the school with this intent all along. It IS San Francisco after all.

[bigsplit]

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.

It seems that Paul had no problem with expelling sinners.

And Paul was wrong here, afterall he did admit that he "died daily"......"Judge not, least ye be judged." I recall Bethsheba and David.....did God cast him off the thrown or have her killed? When Peter denied Christ, was he cast out? Thomas with his doubts, was he cast out? Was Paul kept out of the Church because he pursecuted Christians? Maybe Paul was right. Maybe our good preacher here in NC was right when he threw out his parishioners who supported John Kerry. Maybe only the perfect should be allowed in the Church....maybe we should have no tolerance. In a local "Christian" school a man was fired because his daughter got pregnant...and she was expelled as well...maybe that is right?

or maybe hypocracy is wrong and all should be welcomed into the house of God for we are all his children.....remember "do not keep any of these little ones from me". What is the spiritually immature other than a babe in the eyes of God.

I am not arguing that the acts should not be condemned by the Church...but the mission of bringing sinners to God should never be abridged. Self-rightousness is never exceptable.

[Pilgrim]

And Paul was wrong here, afterall he did admit that he "died daily"......"Judge not, least ye be judged." I recall Bethsheba and David.....did God cast him off the thrown or have her killed? When Peter denied Christ, was he cast out? Thomas with his doubts, was he cast out? Was Paul kept out of the Church because he pursecuted Christians? Maybe Paul was right. Maybe our good preacher here in NC was right when he threw out his parishioners who supported John Kerry. Maybe only the perfect should be allowed in the Church....maybe we should have no tolerance. In a local "Christian" school a man was fired because his daughter got pregnant...and she was expelled as well...maybe that is right?

or maybe hypocracy is wrong and all should be welcomed into the house of God for we are all his children.....remember "do not keep any of these little ones from me". What is the spiritually immature other than a babe in the eyes of God.

I am not arguing that the acts should not be condemned by the Church...but the mission of bringing sinners to God should never be abridged. Self-rightousness is never exceptable.

Interesting though, in all the cases you mentioned from scripture the folks admited their wrongness and sought reconciliation with God. Do you think these girls will do such a thing?

[Mountain Man]

"Judge not, least ye be judged."

One of the most abused passages of scripture. This verse is another exhortation against hypocrisy and not against condemning sin! Here's the fuller text:

Matthew 7:1-5

1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

I've underlined the key phrase in this passage.

Personally, I think you need to take time to really read your Bible with an open mind instead of imposing upon it your own narrow beliefs.

[bigsplit]

Interesting though, in all the cases you mentioned from scripture the folks admited their wrongness and sought reconciliation with God. Do you think these girls will do such a thing?

Certainly not if they are shunned by the Church....they will become hardened towards the Chruch. It amazes me that we (Christians) give up on sinners. I am one that believes there are no evil people and that we are all the children of our creator. I believe that evil does consume peoples lifes and darkness capture their spirit. It is our responsibility as Christians to continually shine light in their lives. If we cast them into darkness (out of the Church) how can they ever have light shine in their souls. Will someone who has been banished from the lighthouse by the keepers, ever give audience to those keepers.

I do not know if the girls will ever give up these behaviors, and neither does anyone else....but, I could never be an obsticle to them finding the light...never. Let government make laws to punish people for their wrong action...that is the role of the State....Let the Church be a constant, unrelenting, brave and faithful light of truth shining in this dark world, never to deny that light to anyone.

[bigsplit]

One of the most abused passages of scripture. This verse is another exhortation against hypocrisy and not against condemning sin! Here's the fuller text:

Matthew 7:1-5

1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

I've underlined the key phrase in this passage.

Personally, I think you need to take time to really read your Bible with an open mind instead of imposing upon it your own narrow beliefs.

It is fine for the Church to condemn sin....but not the sinner...for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. To judge one as a sinner and cast them out of the Church and not the other that has sinned is hypocracy. Such actions are the plank in your eye. After you remove this plank of hypocracy then you may be able to help those with their sins. For when they sought to kill the prostitute, what did Christ tell them?

The traditions of worldly authority and self-rightousness is a plank in the eye of the Church, how can it serve its mission to help sinners remove the specks from their eyes when it has become blind?

And BTW, I think you need to take time to really read your Bible with an open mind instead of imposing upon it the traditions of men.

[Crow]

[I am not arguing that the acts should not be condemned by the Church...but the mission of bringing sinners to God should never be abridged. Self-rightousness is never exceptable.

I'm thinking of when Christ told His disciples to shake the dust off of their sandals and move on if people rejected the message. Seems like the mission of bringing sinners to God is such that when you hit someone who not interested, move on. Aren't there plenty of sinners? Why would God now desire that we allow people who are openly sexually immoral and who evidence no desire to go and sin no more in a school operated by Christians for Christians?

Would God want us to falsify his message in order to make it more appealing to non-Christians? I believe not. God seems to be pretty much a "take it or leave it" kinda guy when it comes to His offer of salvation. Shake the dust off of your sandals......

People have many avenues of hearing the message of salvation other than by mingling with kids we are trying to educate in a Christian school. I don't see a darn thing of an evangelical nature in allowing those who are openly sexually immoral to attend a Christian school. Are we going to hire satanist pedophile teachers next so that we can evangalize them too? How low are you willing to go? Farther than I am, it seems.

[Mountain Man]

To judge one as a sinner and cast them out of the Church and not the other that has sinned is hypocracy.

Not if the one you're casting out is unrepentent and continues to willfully sin.

For when they sought to kill the prostitute, what did Christ tell them?

Another misunderstood passage of scripture. The woman was accused of being "caught in the act" of adultry. According to Hebrew law, both the man and woman would be condemned, and if she was "caught in the act" then surely the man was caught as well, but if you notice, the man is conspicuously absent from the proceedings. It's possible that the woman was set up, or that she was being falsely accused, but the bottom line is, the religious leaders were clearly violating the Law of Moses, and executing her would have been a sin. So Jesus called them out on their hypocrisy: "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Jesus wasn't making a general declaration but speaking specifically to the religious leaders present.

Avoiding hypocrisy was a common theme of Jesus' teachings.

And BTW, I think you need to take time to really read your Bible with an open mind instead of imposing upon it the traditions of men.

What traditions of men am I imposing on it?

[Crow]

Another misunderstood passage of scripture. The woman was accused of being "caught in the act" of adultry. According to Hebrew law, both the man and woman would be condemned, and if she was "caught in the act" then surely the man was caught as well, but if you notice, the man is conspicuously absent from the proceedings. It's possible that the woman was set up, or that she was being falsely accused, but the bottom line is, the religious leaders were clearly violating the Law of Moses, and executing her would have been a sin. So Jesus called them out on their hypocrisy: "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Jesus wasn't making a general declaration but speaking specifically to the religious leaders present.

Good point! Another aspect of that story is that although Jewish law called for stoning, Roman law, which was the civil law of the day, did not. The Pharisees were trying to trick Jesus. Had He said "don't stone her" He would be advocating disobeying the Jewish law. Had He said "stone her" He would be advocating vigilantism, which would bring a charge of murder or sedition under Roman law. In effect, the Pharisees, hungry to find some reason to discredit Christ and/or get Him executed, tried to place Him in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. It was similar to the one where they tried to get Him to say not to pay taxes to the Roman government, the "render unto Caesar" episode.

[bigsplit]

I'm thinking of when Christ told His disciples to shake the dust off of their sandals and move on if people rejected the message. Seems like the mission of bringing sinners to God is such that when you hit someone who not interested, move on. Aren't there plenty of sinners? Why would God now desire that we allow people who are openly sexually immoral and who evidence no desire to go and sin no more in a school operated by Christians for Christians?

Would God want us to falsify his message in order to make it more appealing to non-Christians? I believe not. God seems to be pretty much a "take it or leave it" kinda guy when it comes to His offer of salvation. Shake the dust off of your sandals......

People have many avenues of hearing the message of salvation other than by mingling with kids we are trying to educate in a Christian school. I don't see a darn thing of an evangelical nature in allowing those who are openly sexually immoral to attend a Christian school. Are we going to hire satanist pedophile teachers next so that we can evangalize them too? How low are you willing to go? Farther than I am, it seems.

So let's cast all adulterors out, all liars, all fornicatiors, all murderers, those who lust....but wait, how will we know who is what...how will we know these things of others? Do we not know that all sin.....have these children claimed they are atheist? Is it because these young ladies sin is open that they are punished? Is their honesty of their acts more sinful than the hidden acts of all the other students in the school? This is why judgement of the sinner is that of God and the judgement of man can only be against sin itself...for otherwise your judgement of one sinner is hypocritical becasue you know that all have sinned and do sin. By what judgement you judge, so shall ye be judged I think it reads. God knows all sin and hearts and how we have judged others.





The satanist pedophile is poisoning the well...I'll pass.