Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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I agree. So when you are going to answer my question I've been asking about true meaning?
All we've said at this point is that if a squirrel is good in this sense, then it will like nuts. We have not said why that is. We have not explained why there is a constant connection between A and B. We have not even really begun examining the data yet and you're already jumping to "God isn't needed!" At this point, all that is agreed on is "If a squirrel eats nuts, it's a good representation of what it means to be a squirrel."
We have to start somewhere. If I jump ahead, then things get lost along the way, such as valuable data, so again I start. You begin with not knowing what right actions are, which is morality, but what the things are the actions are done towards.
Yes, because living within a social structure is itself in your own best interests.
So then, I'm doing this because I'm looking out for #1. Got it.
So then, I'm doing this because I'm looking out for #1. Got it.
So what happens when I no longer think living according to the social structure is no longer in my best interests?
Sure I could suffer, but I could not say it was evil.
No. I have not proven it. You would have to demonstrate this claim by showing that people groups started out atheistic and then they were so busy killing each other that someone said "Hey! Let's make up some gods to give us some rules so we can all get along!" That's not a common sense claim. It's a matter of history. Unfortunately, the research of people like Lang and Schmidt have made a powerful case that humanity really began as monotheistic.
You're missing the point. I'm saying without God, there is no good or evil. That's the logical conclusion of the worldview. Unfortunately, there's also no reason to do anything.
Your final point assumes a sort of soteriology where God looks at our motives to decide who's doing good and then looks and grades us on our behavior. Part of the point is that we don't tend to naturally want to be good and we have to do something about that aspect of ourselves. Often times, this can start out as duty. We do what we do just because we know it is the right thing to do. In the end, we do eventually often form a habit out of it.
Kind of like Aristotle said as well.
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