Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Are US Labor Unions Dying?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Have they outlived their usefulness? Reached too far?

    Have you been (or are you now) in a Labor Union?

    (I was UAW for about 3 years way back in my youth )
    Unions have done some good things in their history, but they've also become their own power structure, and seem to be far more interested these days in maintaining their own power than they are in serving the needs of those they putatively represent.

    Rather like political parties. The parallel is dismaying.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Outis View Post
      Unions have done some good things in their history, but they've also become their own power structure, and seem to be far more interested these days in maintaining their own power than they are in serving the needs of those they putatively represent.

      Rather like political parties. The parallel is dismaying.
      Yeah
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Yeah, it's SEVERAL unions banding together to oppose "management", and abusing the power they hold. So, you're right -- unions are even WORSE when they conspire TOGETHER.
        Too glib. An accountant who skims off the quarterly profits, a secretary who spends all her free time chatting, and a CEO who's only there for the severance package he gets upon post-bankruptcy restructuring may all be considered superficially members of their individual "unions", but the problem isn't that they're a collection of management haters, the problem is that their collective lack of any higher motivation for the organization they're a part of apart from their own individual advancement ensures that they both overlook and even encourage each others petty crimes to the point where they become felonious, and will collectively drain any trusting individual who happens to work for them.

        And if they had come to their positions from working on the trenches or the factory floor, rather than, say, getting a Degree In Business Management, Communication, or Finance, respectively, there's no way they would have let the foreman/machinist/engineer/other skilled tradesmen pull one over on them like that. If credentialism as a cost-saving measure destroys due diligence, so much the worse for credentialism.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
          Too glib. An accountant who skims off the quarterly profits, a secretary who spends all her free time chatting, and a CEO who's only there for the severance package he gets upon post-bankruptcy restructuring may all be considered superficially members of their individual "unions", but the problem isn't that they're a collection of management haters, the problem is that their collective lack of any higher motivation for the organization they're a part of apart from their own individual advancement ensures that they both overlook and even encourage each others petty crimes to the point where they become felonious, and will collectively drain any trusting individual who happens to work for them.

          And if they had come to their positions from working on the trenches or the factory floor, rather than, say, getting a Degree In Business Management, Communication, or Finance, respectively, there's no way they would have let the foreman/machinist/engineer/other skilled tradesmen pull one over on them like that. If credentialism as a cost-saving measure destroys due diligence, so much the worse for credentialism.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            So, Mr. Poke, when you saw the trifecta of nest feathering tradesmen in your department, did you actually go into the manager's office and say "Guys, these dudes are totally playing you for suckers!" Or did you sigh and move on, perhaps expecting that the people above them were of the exact same personality type?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
              So, Mr. Poke, when you saw the trifecta of nest feathering tradesmen in your department, did you actually go into the manager's office and say "Guys, these dudes are totally playing you for suckers!"
              I was a kid just out of high school, and it was the way the game was played.

              Or did you sigh and move on, perhaps expecting that the people above them were of the exact same personality type?
              I went on to help build a NON-UNION gas compression company that grew to 800 employees. What did YOU do, Epo, begin a career of endlessly spewing forth verbosity?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                Wrecking this one-man procession has created new jobs and opportunities for advancement. For instance, when you describe this:



                In general labor unions are made up of people who all do the same job. What you're describing isn't really a union, for there's no common spirit that unites it. It's the corruption of the greater purpose of the organization by individuals exploiting their individual interests to grab as much power ('impact' is the bureaucratic term) as they can in their own individual niches, and can be seen even in completely non-unionized organizations and completely non-unionized jobs, in secretaries and managers and bureaucrats as much as trades involving actual physical labor. You are important, and you show your importance by exercising power publicly, even if there's no actual need to do it. "Never let a crisis go to waste," etc.

                Indeed, a good labor union would strive to break down this mentality among its members first (though it would likely filter up to its management eventually.) Effective long-term leadership lies in crushing this attitude among all those who work for you wherever it crops up.
                In some union controlled situations I'm aware of if you knock something over or spill something you can not clean it up. A union member who does custodial/janitorial work must do it. If you clean it up you get chewed out by the union rep for taking work away from another member.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  I knew a couple of people who were in the UAW and worked at the same plant for decades until it got closed down. They had the mentality that they worked for the union and not the company that paid their checks.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    In some union controlled situations I'm aware of if you knock something over or spill something you can not clean it up. A union member who does custodial/janitorial work must do it. If you clean it up you get chewed out by the union rep for taking work away from another member.
                    Exactly my experience. And some of the "less productive" employees knew quite well that "management" was prohibited from any disciplinary action, ESPECIALLY if the employee fell into any of the "protected classes".

                    MANY a time, in my short Union tenure, I heard "I'll write you up!" -- meaning file a grievance because you did something that was entirely reserved for somebody else to do.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I was a kid just out of high school, and it was the way the game was played.



                      I went on to help build a NON-UNION gas compression company that grew to 800 employees. What did YOU do, Epo, begin a career of endlessly spewing forth verbosity?
                      Nice save, there, CEO:) I used my Teamster job to pay for college, took the military separation option, and am now helping build my own non-union company at double what I was making in the military. And my career of spewing forth verbosity encompassed all those jobs, thank you very much.

                      Nevertheless, I do recognize that unions originally had a purpose, and that startups aren't really options for people getting into the job market, given how they tend to require a core of people who had built their skills in the ugly trenches of union and non-unionized corporate work. Unfortunately, those previous learning environments are getting taken over by the foolish, greedy, venal, and stupid, thanks in large part to wishful thinking among those who attained success and then grew too fearful and too disconnected from their previous co-workers to fight stupidity in government or business.

                      Texas shows some delay in the eventual fate of places like California, but demographics aren't exactly pointing toward a rosy future under the current setup, and I heavily doubt someone could replicate your success even today.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                        Nice save, there, CEO:)
                        "helping build" the gas compression company was in ADDITION to owning my own computer consulting business, of which I WAS the CEO.

                        I used my Teamster job to pay for college, took the military separation option, and am now helping build my own non-union company at double what I was making in the military.
                        Underachiever, eh?

                        And my career of spewing forth verbosity encompassed all those jobs, thank you very much.
                        You get points for consistency.

                        Nevertheless, I do recognize that unions originally had a purpose
                        I don't think any of us has disputed that.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment

                        Related Threads

                        Collapse

                        Topics Statistics Last Post
                        Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                        16 responses
                        165 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post One Bad Pig  
                        Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                        53 responses
                        400 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post Mountain Man  
                        Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                        25 responses
                        114 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post rogue06
                        by rogue06
                         
                        Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                        33 responses
                        198 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post Roy
                        by Roy
                         
                        Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                        84 responses
                        383 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post JimL
                        by JimL
                         
                        Working...
                        X