Biblical Evidence One Can Lose Their Salvation

[Joe Gofish]

"but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Cor. 9:27)

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." (2 Peter 2:20-21)

"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10)

"but he who endures to the end will be saved."Mt 10:22)

"Take care, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart leading you to fall away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “today,” so that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin . For we share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." (Heb 3: 12-14)

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity to those who have fallen, but kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."(Rom 11:22-23)

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of the Father who is heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 7:21)

[Sheepdog]

a couple of those can be interpreted as refering to false believers, i.e. the fall away because they weren't "of us" in the first place.

and 1Cor 6:9-10 needs to be read with verse 11: Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

otherwise, not bad. i'd add 1Tim 1:19 and 4:1 as well.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

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[Aetius II]

I don't believe these verses do much to help the synergist cause:

"but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." (1 Cor. 9:27)

Paul is describing his personal struggles of maintaining purity and holiness, so that he would not be considered a hypocrit to his audience. Its clear from the context of the verse that Paul is discussing his personal qualifications as an authority figure in the Church, not salvation.

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." (2 Peter 2:20-21)

In context, this passage is talking about false teachers and false prophets, who were never saved in the first place (see v. 19). The key words I think here are "if" and "knowledge", in that this is a) a hypothetical circumstance and b) "knowledge" to mean giving intellectual assent to Jesus Christ; faith is not mentioned nor implied.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10)

Out of context again, already addressed.

"but he who endures to the end will be saved."Mt 10:22)

Yes? I don't see how this verse points to someone at one time having salvation and then losing it (as if salvation is something that is determined by man).

"Take care, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart leading you to fall away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “today,” so that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin . For we share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." (Heb 3: 12-14)

Of course man has responsibility in sanctification, but once again I do not see how this verse talks of onetime having salvation and then losing it. Also remember Phillipians 2:12-13 when thinking of sanctification: "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity to those who have fallen, but kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."(Rom 11:22-23)

Another verse taken out of context. Paul is talking about the grafting in the Gentiles because of the unfaithfulness of the Jews, how they were once God's covenant people but they rejected their Messiah. Also remember earlier in the passage when Paul said in Rom. 11:7-8 "What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written,
'God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.' "

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of the Father who is heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 7:21)

Jesus is speaking of false converts, those who will claim to be Christians but are in fact unregenerated. Once again, does not salvation was once attained and now lost.


Context, context, context.

[Rightglory]

Why begin with the statement regarding whether one can lose salvation when one must first show that one has it first. No place that I know of shows that man can claim permanent possession of eternal life in this life. If you cannot show this, then the question of the op is a false premise.

A look at some statements already made:

Paul is describing his personal struggles of maintaining purity and holiness,

Precisely, it is the living of it by which we are saved. We are saved through faith, not by faith. We are justified by faith. But if one does not live that faith, justification is null and void. We are not saved by living unfaithfully. At the judgement it is not our faith, but our works that will be judged. Both Paul and James attest to this as does Revelation.

(2 Peter 2:20-21)
In context, this passage is talking about false teachers and false prophets, who were never saved in the first place (see v. 19). The key words I think here are "if" and "knowledge", in that this is a) a hypothetical circumstance and b) "knowledge" to mean giving intellectual assent to Jesus Christ; faith is not mentioned nor implied.

The context is precisely of believers who have fallen away. It is the best description we have in scripture indicating that one who has been enlightened, baptised, can and does revert to a former unbelieving life. We can possess "salvation", we can live in Christ in this life, but we can also reject Christ in this life by leaving the life of living IN Christ.

(1 Cor. 6:9-10)
Out of context again, already addressed.

Hardly. If this is an absolute statement, then neither Paul, nor Moses and a host, in fact, every single human being would be ineligible to inherit the Kingdom. Repentance would be a lost word in scripture as well as conversion or initial faith.

"but he who endures to the end will be saved."Mt 10:22)
Yes? I don't see how this verse points to someone at one time having salvation and then losing it (as if salvation is something that is determined by man).

That is why my statement at the top shows that the premise is false. One does not possess salvation, guaranteed in this life. We possess it through faith. But if faith fails, we become unfaithful, we will not remain possessors of the Kingdom, nor inherit the kingdom at the end. It is all about enduring. We possess it upon faith, but faith must remain, endure in order to inherit.

Of course man has responsibility in sanctification, but once again I do not see how this verse talks of onetime having salvation and then losing it.

Absolutely. It is all about being sanctified, living IN faith, living IN Christ. When we no longer desire to be sanctified, no longer desire to live IN Christ, we no longer possess the Kingdom in this life either, let alone at the end.

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity to those who have fallen, but kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."(Rom 11:22-23)
Another verse taken out of context.

It may be out of context of something, but not that man must endure his faith. It plainly, directly, forthwith states that some have fallen. It also plainly states that God will prune, will cut off those who are unfaithful. Not only states it but proves it with those Isrealites who were unfaithful. How could it be more precise?

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of the Father who is heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 7:21)
Jesus is speaking of false converts, those who will claim to be Christians but are in fact unregenerated. Once again, does not salvation was once attained and now lost.

Again, it is all about being faithful, doing the work, enduring. Actually the words, "false converts" is an oxymoran. Unless one thinks that as an unbeliever one converts to being an unbeliever.

Again, find any text in the Bible that categorically states that believers are saved, guaranteed upon a simple assertion of faith in this life all the way to eternity.

You will need to find one text that refutes I Pet 1:4-5.

[Aetius II]

First, you chopped up some of my quotes (i.e. every quote except Mt. 10 and 1 Cor 6). I wasn't trying to just give pat answers of "out of context" for all of these, but don't isolate scripture when trying to make a point, nor isolate my words. Your repeated statements that I'm ignoring "plain language" illustrate your use of selective literalism in interpreting the Bible. I could just as easily say to you that your not saved if you don't hate your mother using selective literalism.

Secondly, your whole argument stands on the belief that faith originates from man, when it in fact comes from God. I'm not trying to show that repentance and faith is not necessary (because it is), but that repentance and saving faith are given by God.

"God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins." (Acts 5:31)

"When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48)

"One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul." (Acts 16:14)

"And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed," (Acts 18:27)

"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake," (Phillipians 1:29)

Third, what is your explination for this verse?

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30)

Fourth, simply look at 1 Peter 1:2-3 to see my answer to 1 Peter 1:4-5.

[Rightglory]

Aetius II,

I'm not trying to show that repentance and faith is not necessary (because it is), but that repentance and saving faith are given by God.

Cannot quibble with that. That is the work of Christ on the Cross in redeeming mankind. All men have the capability of repentance and faith. That is the Gift given to mankind. That is the specific reason God redeemed mankind, so that He could call all men to repentance. The choice is up to man. God does not force His way with man. It it the choice and the remaining in that choice for which we all will be judged. What we have done with the Gift, given to mankind.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30)

In order to qualify one must first believe. If one believes he becomes part of the elect. Those that are IN Christ, those then will be conformed to His Image. Foreknowing does not mean selection.

Fourth, simply look at 1 Peter 1:2-3 to see my answer to 1 Peter 1:4-5.

It is a prelude to the verses of 4-5. It is all about belief, being sprinkled with His Blood, archtypes of the connection of the OT with the NT. Ex 12:13, Ex 24:8, Lev 16:15 with John 6:53, I Cor 11:25. It is about obedience to Christ. We are begotten to a hope through baptism. This baptism of water and the Spirit unites us to Christ's death and resurrection. Rom 6:3, Acts 2:37,
All of this is reserved for us, an incorruptible inheritance for those who have faith, faith that persevers to the end.
Thus we are kept by the power of God, THROUGH OUR FAITH, for salvation to be revealed in the end. We do not inherit it permanently until death, which is the determinant whether we have been faithful in this life.

Christ redeemed mankind just so that we might be able to have the choice, the personal choice and not be condemned and destroyed by the one sin of Adam.

[Aetius II]

You make assertions that man has the ability to choose God by himself. Show me where that belief comes from. I've shown you support for God giving men the ability to believe.

And foreknew does not mean foreseen faith. Find the words foreseen faith in the Bible...

Also keep in mind that commands of God (i.e. to repent) does not mean that we are, without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, able to obey them (i.e. no one has kept the first commandment).

And if God grants the "Gift" of faith to all men, why are some saved and others not?

[Aetius II]

And if God grants the "Gift" of faith to all men, why are some saved and others not?

Disregard this statement. I misread that part.

[Dee Dee Warren]

In the Dean's List post for this thread, GoBa made the statement:
Nice effort to defend the doctrine of God's ability to keep His own.

That is the kind of thing that drives me a bit nuts - for the most part, NonCalvinists are not making a statement about God's ability - that is generally a strawman rhetorical device.

[Rightglory]

aetius II,

You make assertions that man has the ability to choose God by himself. Show me where that belief comes from. I've shown you support for God giving men the ability to believe.

Quite the contrary. All men have the ability to choose because all have been redeemed. All have the ability, the capability to choose. It is precisely the choosing for which we will be held accountable. All men will be held accountable, no exceptions. Each to what he has been given.

And foreknew does not mean foreseen faith. Find the words foreseen faith in the Bible...

Foreknow means to know before hand. Whether, an event, a decision, faith, whatever, it matters not.
God is omniscient.

Also keep in mind that commands of God (i.e. to repent) does not mean that we are, without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, able to obey them (i.e. no one has kept the first commandment).

Regeneration of the Holy Spirit comes after repentance. However, all of mankind have been transformed by death and resurrection of Christ. That is what is significant. God calls all men to repentance and are held accountable only because He has freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin.

And if God grants the "Gift" of faith to all men, why are some saved and others not?

Because it is solely upon man, his responsibility to accept or reject the Gift. The Gift is not shoved down man's throat. He is free to choose or reject. Obviously many will reject.

[Aetius II]

In the Dean's List post for this thread, GoBa made the statement:
Nice effort to defend the doctrine of God's ability to keep His own.

That is the kind of thing that drives me a bit nuts - for the most part, NonCalvinists are not making a statement about God's ability - that is generally a strawman rhetorical device.

What the issue is is that God is the one who preserves his own, not man preserving himself through his own abilities. Its perfectly appropriate to say, for if God isn't the ultimate decision maker in salvation, than man's ability to keep the faith is the ultimate reason why someone is saved.

[Aetius II]

aetius II,

Quite the contrary. All men have the ability to choose because all have been redeemed. All have the ability, the capability to choose. It is precisely the choosing for which we will be held accountable. All men will be held accountable, no exceptions. Each to what he has been given.

Foreknow means to know before hand. Whether, an event, a decision, faith, whatever, it matters not.
God is omniscient.

Regeneration of the Holy Spirit comes after repentance. However, all of mankind have been transformed by death and resurrection of Christ. That is what is significant. God calls all men to repentance and are held accountable only because He has freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin.

Because it is solely upon man, his responsibility to accept or reject the Gift. The Gift is not shoved down man's throat. He is free to choose or reject. Obviously many will reject.

You can make all the assertions you want, but you have no biblical support for your assumptions. I've given many biblical examples that God through the Holy Spirit begins regeneration BEFORE they come to Christ. You have giving me no alternative verses.

Also, I think you are confused as to what Christ actually accomplished on the cross. If on the Cross Christ "freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin", why then do some go to heaven and some go to hell? If that work truely frees all men, why then did you say that all are held accountable? How can they be held accountable if they have been freed and redeemed from acountability (sin)?

I don't think your arguing universalism, but I'm confused as to your position.

Find Biblical support to show that man is able to come to God without God first acting upon his heart.

[Rightglory]

Aetius II,

You can make all the assertions you want, but you have no biblical support for your assumptions. I've given many biblical examples that God through the Holy Spirit begins regeneration BEFORE they come to Christ. You have giving me no alternative verses.

They are neither assertions nor assumptions. I have not seen any text of yours that indicates regeneration comes before repentance.
But these are the ones that you need to refute:

II Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Acts 26:20: but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 11:18 When they heard this,they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are teasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of warth and revelation of therighteous judgment of God.

Rev 2:16 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth

Matthew 11: 20- 22: Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 "Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Titus 3:5-6: not by works of righteousness which wse have done, but accorfding to His merch He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.

Acts10:44-45: While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts 11:17. If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?

God does command all to repent, God does desire all to be saved; God calls all to salvation. It is the conviction/belief/LOVING-God that opens a man's heart to salvation. Acts 17:30, 1Tim 2:1-4, Rm 10:10 & 8:28, Acts 2:37, Jn 3:18 & 1Jn 5:10.

You will not find a single text either in context our out of context that places regeneration, the spiritual renewal and union of God with man prior to faith, to repentance. These are prerequisites of being joined with Christ.

Also, I think you are confused as to what Christ actually accomplished on the cross. If on the Cross Christ "freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin", why then do some go to heaven and some go to hell? If that work truely frees all men, why then did you say that all are held accountable? How can they be held accountable if they have been freed and redeemed from acountability (sin)?

Hardly. What Christ accomplished on the Cross was our redemption. Our redemption from the curse, the judgement against Adam. Christ bore that curse, that judgement for us. Thus He freed mankind from that curse. Mankinds redemption freed mankind of this judgement, to make the choice for himself and not be condemned through Adam. If we are going to be condemned it will be through our own decisions, not Adam's. Hell only exists because Christ redeemed mankind from destruction.
Christ restored us to life rather than leave His creation under the judgement of death. He restored mankind to fulfill his created purpose of being in Union with Him, freely, as Adam had the choice.

I don't think your arguing universalism, but I'm confused as to your position.

I hope you have been enlightened.

Find Biblical support to show that man is able to come to God without God first acting upon his heart.

See above texts. There are many more.