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Thread: Why is the Trinity an essential to there even being a God?

  1. #11
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I do not consider these parallels to be adequate to justify the Trinity.



    Neither the Jews, Muslims, Baha'is nor I consider this an adequate explanation to justify the Trinity. A description of the manifestation of God in this world described in OT scripture is not adequate justification for a separate another 'person' of God, nor a Trinitarian belief.

    If the concept of the Trinity is true and essential it would have been more specifically defined in the OT.
    Says he who claims to believe in progressive revelation.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  2. #12
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Says he who claims to believe in progressive revelation.
    Yes I believe in progressive Revelation, but the fundamental oneness of God does not change. The evolution of Spiritual laws as humanity matures is the primary purpose of Progressive Revelation. The concept of Progressive Revelation includes restoring original foundation beliefs in God that have been corrupted by human culture. In this case a Roman Hellenist view of Gods. The history of OT Progressive Revelation reflects constant efforts to restore Monotheism as opposed to other polytheistic and corrupted views of God.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-27-2015 at 11:50 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #13
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    And God's identity?
    God is God. The One and only One God and indivisible as confirmed throughout the Old Testament.


    So God as a finite being does all those things. And talks to himself.
    Yes, God is an infinite being that does all these things. I do not see anywhere where God talks to himself.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. #14
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Yes I believe in progressive Revelation, but the fundamental oneness of God does not change. The evolution of Spiritual laws as humanity matures is the primary purpose of Progressive Revelation. The concept of Progressive Revelation includes restoring original foundation beliefs in God that have been corrupted by human culture. In this case a Roman Hellenist view of Gods. The history of OT Progressive Revelation reflects constant efforts to restore Monotheism as opposed to other polytheistic and corrupted views of God.
    Indeed - the fundamental oneness of God does not change. Nor does the fundamental oneness of the generic human.
    Is it your claim that the New Testament is in conflict with the Old Testament about the identity of Christ as God? Are you familiar with the archaeological findings that show the Masoretic Text - upon which modern Hebrew scripture is based - is not the same as the Hebrew text prior to 150AD?
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  5. #15
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    God is God. The One and only One God and indivisible as confirmed throughout the Old Testament.
    That is meaningless. That provides no meaningful identity as to God.

    Yes, God is an infinite being that does all these things. I do not see anywhere where God talks to himself.
    Walks in a garden. And speaks to himself as "us." Not as "we," mind you, but as "us."
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The One and only One God and indivisible as confirmed throughout the Old Testament.
    Which is true BTW. How is God's identity revealed by the Hebrew holy scripture? And that identity is?
    Last edited by 37818; 08-27-2015 at 08:58 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  7. #17
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Indeed - the fundamental oneness of God does not change. Nor does the fundamental oneness of the generic human.
    True and the Doctrine of the Trinity, and the claim of Jesus Christ being an incarnate God is a heresy concerning the fundamental oneness of God.

    Is it your claim that the New Testament is in conflict with the Old Testament about the identity of Christ as God? Are you familiar with the archaeological findings that show the Masoretic Text - upon which modern Hebrew scripture is based - is not the same as the Hebrew text prior to 150AD?
    Yes, no problem. Neither do the Jews have a problem with these texts.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #18
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    An estimated 7000 discrepancies, and with many of them involving prophecies concerning the messiah and identifying him as God himself - and the Jews have no problem with the discrepancies... despite decrying the Septuagint as a flawed translation: but it is the Septuagint that shows consistency with texts pre-dating AD 150, where the current Hebrew scripture does not.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  9. #19
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    True and the Doctrine of the Trinity, and the claim of Jesus Christ being an incarnate God is a heresy concerning the fundamental oneness of God.
    Christians do not claim Jesus in an incarnate God. That would make him another God. He is the incarnation of the one God. There is only one God, not two or three.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  10. Amen 37818 amen'd this post.
  11. #20
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    God incarnate means .... God made (having become) /flesh/, as at John 1. ... "flesh" is contextually implicit.

    Actually - that's wrong. In+carnare = in (the) flesh
    Last edited by tabibito; 08-28-2015 at 05:26 AM.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  12. Amen Jedidiah, Catholicity amen'd this post.

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