This is a split from here.
I am curious to know where you got that idea. It appears to be another of your inventive speculations. None of the scriptures you cite offer you any support.. Would you provide a scriptural citation that specifically alludes to your assertion or even some supportive remark from any ancient father of any stripe.
Your recent post prompted me to wade through your posts in the thread "Derail from Orthodox Anathema Service on Christology". What struck me is your peculiar word usage. I suggest you procure a good English dictionary...
According to Ephesians 3:9 (1:1-3; 3:14) & Heb 1:2 God the Father created all things through his Son, Jesus Christ. Such a fact seems to undermine your "uncaused cause" theory.
I agree with you that "creation is a temporal act of God". The dictionary definition of "temporal": relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs; relating to time. Also, it is readily observable that temporal things tend to have a temporary existence (are constrained by time).
I disagree with your unbiblical idea that "the Logos always had two natures", one of which was "temporal", the other "eternal". I have two reasons for my disagreement...
1. "Temporal" and "Eternal" are states of being, not nature (physis) or essence (ousia). We learn from scripture (1 Cor 15:53) that the saved, though currently temporal beings will become eternal beings (unconstrained by time).
2. Your idea is illogical given that temporal things (including time) did not exist until they were created. The Logos existed in eternity where "time" and other temporal things are non-existent. Thus the "temporal nature" of the Logos didn't exist prior to his incarnation.
"Eternal" is not a "nature" (physis), it is a mode of existence = external to time.
"Nature" (physis) is a metaphysical term which by definition requires observable "motion". It is the "motion" that differentiates the terms "nature" (physis) and "essence" (ousia).
To be caused or uncaused in eternity is simply a personal attribute of an eternal hypostasis, thus the relevant status is external to its "essence" (ousia) and "nature" (physis).
By definition "eternity" is devoid of time, there are no beginnings or ends in eternity. Thus whatever exists in eternity has no beginning nor end, but may have cause.
I recently read a theological observation that I liked: Being "unbegotten" implies being eternal, but being eternal does not necessarily imply being "unbegotten".
All things made by the Son are definitely temporal.
Orthodox Christians understand God the Father as the source and cause of the Son of God (cp. Heb 1:3) and the Spirit (cp. John 15:26). Both existed in eternity before temporal things came into existence (Regarding the Son, scripture is most emphatic on this point eg: John 1:1-3; Col 1:16). So your premise, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, is without substantiation. An Orthodox Christian would say God begets in eternity (external to time), but He creates temporally (within the bounds of time).
The scriptures identify that the Son of God existed before all things made were made (John 1:1-3). We also read "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). The creation act includes the creation of earth time (cp. Genesis 1:14). The commencement of creation (the beginning of John 1:1a, Gen 1:1) is usually perceived as the beginning of universal time. Thus, we are assured by scripture that the Son was begotten in eternity (before time existed, before the ages).
Also note Ephesians 3:9 (1:1-3; 3:14) & Heb 1:2 where we learn that God the Father created all things through his Son, Jesus Christ.
What you don't seem to realise is that the Son's Godhead is invested in his ousia (Hence the Church's teaching on the Homoousios). The incarnation had no impact on the ousia of the Son. All that occured is that he accumulated humanity to his hypostasis.
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Given 37818's argument goes in circles, I'll stop at this point...
Originally posted by 37818
Your recent post prompted me to wade through your posts in the thread "Derail from Orthodox Anathema Service on Christology". What struck me is your peculiar word usage. I suggest you procure a good English dictionary...
Originally posted by 37818 post #101
I agree with you that "creation is a temporal act of God". The dictionary definition of "temporal": relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs; relating to time. Also, it is readily observable that temporal things tend to have a temporary existence (are constrained by time).
I disagree with your unbiblical idea that "the Logos always had two natures", one of which was "temporal", the other "eternal". I have two reasons for my disagreement...
1. "Temporal" and "Eternal" are states of being, not nature (physis) or essence (ousia). We learn from scripture (1 Cor 15:53) that the saved, though currently temporal beings will become eternal beings (unconstrained by time).
2. Your idea is illogical given that temporal things (including time) did not exist until they were created. The Logos existed in eternity where "time" and other temporal things are non-existent. Thus the "temporal nature" of the Logos didn't exist prior to his incarnation.
Originally posted by 37818 post #104
"Nature" (physis) is a metaphysical term which by definition requires observable "motion". It is the "motion" that differentiates the terms "nature" (physis) and "essence" (ousia).
Originally posted by 37818 post #104
By definition "eternity" is devoid of time, there are no beginnings or ends in eternity. Thus whatever exists in eternity has no beginning nor end, but may have cause.
I recently read a theological observation that I liked: Being "unbegotten" implies being eternal, but being eternal does not necessarily imply being "unbegotten".
Originally posted by 37818
Orthodox Christians understand God the Father as the source and cause of the Son of God (cp. Heb 1:3) and the Spirit (cp. John 15:26). Both existed in eternity before temporal things came into existence (Regarding the Son, scripture is most emphatic on this point eg: John 1:1-3; Col 1:16). So your premise, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, is without substantiation. An Orthodox Christian would say God begets in eternity (external to time), but He creates temporally (within the bounds of time).
The scriptures identify that the Son of God existed before all things made were made (John 1:1-3). We also read "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). The creation act includes the creation of earth time (cp. Genesis 1:14). The commencement of creation (the beginning of John 1:1a, Gen 1:1) is usually perceived as the beginning of universal time. Thus, we are assured by scripture that the Son was begotten in eternity (before time existed, before the ages).
Also note Ephesians 3:9 (1:1-3; 3:14) & Heb 1:2 where we learn that God the Father created all things through his Son, Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by 37818
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Given 37818's argument goes in circles, I'll stop at this point...
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