Prager University on Abortion.

[Darth Ovious]

Yeah, I can get lost, but I just deal with it and do my best.

So I've had you, QF, Rumtum, lilpixie, OBP, Rogue, Jesse, Joel, Sparko, Mossrose, and DE, so that's about eleven people and counting.

I'm sad I wasn't placed on this list.

[Darth Ovious]

Why? And why do you get to arbitrarily define the value of life but not me?

Well, are you going to eat that human fetus after you've aborted it?

[Darth Ovious]

So it's got to do with the species? That's a slippery slope. I mean, why should that be the basis?

Well you can kill other members of your own species if you want but don't be surprised when others don't like that idea.

[Darth Ovious]

I use wasting the brain-death criteria as a conditional inverse. In other words, if life ends when under conditions A, then life begins at A as well. That's my argument.

However as noted if it's possible to bring brain activity back then isn't that the responsibility of the doctor to at least try? In the case of the mother then she can bring brain activity just by continuing with her pregnancy.

[Darth Ovious]

Sounds a little anti-life to me. Either you respect life or you don't. It has nothing to with classes of species.

Well if you think so there is a vegetarian movement going on where I'm sure they will be happy to have you.

[Sparko]

I've answered the question, Sparko. I'm sorry you didn't like the answer and just like comparing things you don't like to Nazism since you're all out of other arguments. Myself, Roy, Starlight, Jaecp, and company are laughing at this because it shows the pro-life movement isn't interested in fair, honest, and adult conversation.

so now you have moved on to claiming to have answered the question.

OK,

Did the Nazi's dehumanize the Jews and claim they were subhuman and experiment on them and kill them?

Did Americans dehumanize blacks in the days of slavery in order to consider them property and do whatever they wanted to them?

Did Saddam Hussein dehumanize the kurds in order to commit genocide on them?

Please answer yes or no.

[tabibito]

Did the Nazi's dehumanize the Jews and claim they were subhuman and experiment on them and kill them?

Did Americans dehumanize blacks in the days of slavery in order to consider them property and do whatever they wanted to them?

Did Saddam Hussein dehumanize the kurds in order to commit genocide on them?

Please answer yes or no.

Why stop with that list?

Do fundamentalists dehumanise others in order to justify vilifying them?

Do school yard bullies dehumanise their victims in order to justify victimising them?

Do governments dehumanise the underprivileged in order to justify penalising them?

Do parsimonious employers dehumanise employees in order to justify payment of subsistence wages?

The list is quite extensive.

In short - self justification - is used pervasively - to avoid responsibility - for one's own lack of a sense of fairness.

[Joel]

Even you in a post to someone else said that it's the permanence that makes it death.

Can you quote it so I can clarify it?

I searched back. I'm not sure this is the post I was thinking of, but you said,

The problem is, your grandmother didn't stop being a person because she was brain dead.

Yeah, she did actually. She was GONE. There was no life other than the life-support systems, that would have had to do all of her bodily functions. She was NEVER going to wake-up. If that's still a person to you then I don't know what else to say.

It seems you are acknowledging that its permanence is a sine qua non for death and not being a person.
And the only reason for my contrary-to-fact conditional was to illustrate that.
Permanence is a necessary condition that is lacking in the case of a human fetus.

A lot of this is outside my field of expertise and so I won't touch it.

You were the one who made such a strong claim about it.

[Jedidiah]

Every era in history has it's bad people. You might not want to think you are one but considering it's quite a lot of people saying this, including some non-religious people and not just one or two then perhaps you might want to consider which side is right.

This whole abortion affair will ultimately go down in history as own of the very most evil things ever. Like the other horrible events that have been mentioned in this and other abortion threads. Just as the supporters of all those other evil things, including the Holocaust, did not think of themselves as evil abortion supporters (especially "post birth abortion supporters) will ultimately be recognized for the evil men (male and female) they are.

[Jedidiah]

Well, yeah, pretty much.

My grandmother suffered a horrible accident were she experienced a brain death, and it was probably the worst experience of my entire life. When I saw her in that hospital room, I knew she was gone forever. It was horrible because she experienced a lot of seizures and involuntary movements; it caused my father to have a nervous breakdown.

What about the cases where people have been long considered brain dead, and they recover - at least one remembering the things that happened while he was "dead?"

[Sparko]

What about the cases where people have been long considered brain dead

We seem to have some of them in this thread.

[Sea of red]

so now you have moved on to claiming to have answered the question.

OK,

Did the Nazi's dehumanize the Jews and claim they were subhuman and experiment on them and kill them?

Did Americans dehumanize blacks in the days of slavery in order to consider them property and do whatever they wanted to them?

Did Saddam Hussein dehumanize the kurds in order to commit genocide on them?

Please answer yes or no.

[Sparko]

****dodges again*****

Why won't you answer me? You claim you already did, so it should be no problem to answer yes or no to my questions. ?





Did the Nazi's dehumanize the Jews and claim they were subhuman and experiment on them and kill them?

Did Americans dehumanize blacks in the days of slavery in order to consider them property and do whatever they wanted to them?

Did Saddam Hussein dehumanize the kurds in order to commit genocide on them?

Please answer yes or no.

[Sea of red]

Why won't you answer me? You claim you already did, so it should be no problem to answer yes or no to my questions. ?





Did the Nazi's dehumanize the Jews and claim they were subhuman and experiment on them and kill them?

Did Americans dehumanize blacks in the days of slavery in order to consider them property and do whatever they wanted to them?

Did Saddam Hussein dehumanize the kurds in order to commit genocide on them?

Please answer yes or no.

You think I'm going to answer you when you call me a chicken? Um, yeah, I'll get right on that buddy. Besides, you know my answers already, and you just want me to restate them so can start some sort of game of 'gotcha'.

[Sparko]

You think I'm going to answer you when you call me a chicken? Um, yeah, I'll get right on that buddy. Besides, you know my answers already, and you just want me to restate them so can start some sort of game of 'gotcha'.

All I know is that you like to mock me and others and dodge questions while burning strawmen.

I used to have respect for you as a decent debater, but now I am not sure. All you seem to do is avoid questions while mocking everyone. Why bother posting in this thread in the first place? You have contributed nothing to it.