Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

On The Duggars

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
    What does this have to do with this guys parents not taking his behavior seriously? What does this have to do with them not getting him or his sisters professional help? What does this have to do with Jim Bob punishing Josh for normal behavior, and not treating his harmful behavior? I honestly feel sorry for all of these kids. They were brought up with a lot of confusion and ignorance on sex - while being punished for normal behaviors and Josh getting sent away for viewing porn.

    The Duggars failed miserably to handle what was going on; those kids needed their parents help. Instead, it got largely ignored and disgustingly downplayed. It ought to be against the law to be a parent and stand by while such dysfunction was going on.
    Did you mean to reply to someone else? I didn't ask about the Duggars, I asked you if in your previous posts you were asserting that modern attitudes about sex were not so different to those before the sexual revolution. That seemed to be the direction you were going in. Are you not asserting that?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      Did you mean to reply to someone else? I didn't ask about the Duggars, I asked you if in your previous posts you were asserting that modern attitudes about sex were not so different to those before the sexual revolution. That seemed to be the direction you were going in. Are you not asserting that?
      I personally think they were but I don't want this to conversation to diverge into that - as it has nothing to do with the Duggars dysfunctional family.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
        She just like to put paragraphs in other peoples mouths, and then tells them why it's wrong.
        Well that seems easier than the alternative

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
          Sure she did...
          So you have evidence that what the articles and her own lawyers said, is a lie? Hummm, I'm pretty sure most people know their own lives better than you do. I don't know what is so hard about this logic, she converted to Christianity 4 years ago, her last divorce was 6 years ago. How could she be a 'hypocrite' for not following the religious belief of a religion she wasn't part of, 6 years ago? How in the world does that work?

          I guess you could try reading it again.
          Did, still doesn't make sense. Don't worry, perhaps you can pretend all the problems are with your opponents again.
          You mean like the totally unconstitutional war on drugs, anti-prostitution task forces, banning of gambling, and other countless vice crime laws that got shoe-horned into law; that have ruined countless lives, get kids kicked out college, give people criminal record that screw-up future job opportunities, and generated more violence than we had before? And then all those judges, DA's, and police departments that Regan and Bush gave a kid of protection that attracts malicious egomaniacs into going for those positions and criminally abusing them?
          And many of these issues, which are pressed by liberals and conservatives alike (you are aware the 'war on drugs' has roots going back over 100 years, right?). I guess you're not aware of what Hilary Clinton recently asked for, on one of her speeches, with the 'war on drugs'? Hey, liberals were in power from 2008-2010 and could have pushed anything they pleased though the system and yet... why didn't the end the 'war on drugs' while totally ignoring federal laws? Sorry, but liberals are hardly in the position to preach to anybody about following the letter of the law since they frequently ignore laws they don't like or approve of (like immigration laws or drug laws).

          The right-wing doesn't exactly have a good track record on justice.
          And neither do liberals, but that sure doesn't stop liberals from attacking anybody who doesn't hold to their position by throwing them in jail, while several of their own break laws themselves. There's this saying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Liberals should stop throwing stones until they start jailing their own and actually enforcing laws on the books instead of just enforcing the ones they agree with while condemning conservatives for doing what they do themselves.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by AlecWelsh View Post
            I never said the Bible says stone divorced woman. Stoning woman from adultery yes which having children out of wedlock is.
            Ummm, do you even know what having children out of wedlock means? Just because somebody is having kids out of wedlock, doesn't mean they committed adultery. Do you know what 'fornication' is? It is a different thing than adultery and it is quite possible to have kids out of wedlock and not be committing adultery. Can you point out where the Bible says to stone people who have children out of wedlock? Anyway, I thought this was the game where we make up whatever our opponents say in older to make it easier to refute (sort of like what you did). Can you actually point out where Ms. Davis believes she should be 'stone to death' because I thought she converted to Christianity and didn't become a Pre-Babylon Jew. Do you even know what Christians believe or do you just blurt out the first thing that enters your weed fried brain and that is it?

            You also have no idea what moral standards I hold too. It is just there is not real standards of morality in Christianity when belief is priority over moral actions and moral actions alone have no meaning without belief.
            You have no idea what Christians believe (as you keep indicating) and you really should stop talking about it until you actually understand what Christians actually believe. Christians do not stone people for committing adultery Alec and it really wouldn't apply to Ms Davis' case anyway since her conversion to Christianity happened years after any divorces, fornication, or adultery would have taken place, so all you really got left is slut shaming. Nice. Always great to watch fundy atheist engage in things they tend to disapprove of people doing.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Brave Sir Jaecp View Post
              Well that seems easier than the alternative
              Irony at it's finest. So have you shown that the Duggers are 'anti sex' yet or did you run away from that claim because it required you to admit to an error and you can never admit to being wrong about anything?
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                [QSo you have evidence that what the articles and her own lawyers said, is a lie? Hummm, I'm pretty sure most people know their own lives better than you do. I don't know what is so hard about this logic, she converted to Christianity 4 years ago, her last divorce was 6 years ago. How could she be a 'hypocrite' for not following the religious belief of a religion she wasn't part of, 6 years ago? How in the world does that work?
                I couldn't care less. Whether it was before or after, it shows that she didn't take her marriages very seriously to an extent, that she failed multiple times at them. You would think that those experiences would have humbled her as an individual, rather than make her so arrogant and self-righteous. You don't get to so easily just walk away from your past actions when you're going to preach and condemn others - when your failures are far more serious.

                Did, still doesn't make sense. Don't worry, perhaps you can pretend all the problems are with your opponents again.
                Well, that hardly surprises me. That accusation is off your greatest hits record of psychological projections.
                And many of these issues, which are pressed by liberals and conservatives alike (you are aware the 'war on drugs' has roots going back over 100 years, right?). I guess you're not aware of what Hilary Clinton recently asked for, on one of her speeches, with the 'war on drugs'? Hey, liberals were in power from 2008-2010 and could have pushed anything they pleased though the system and yet... why didn't the end the 'war on drugs' while totally ignoring federal laws? Sorry, but liberals are hardly in the position to preach to anybody about following the letter of the law since they frequently ignore laws they don't like or approve of (like immigration laws or drug laws).
                The war on drugs is a business venture for both Democrats and Republicans. They are both historically in the back pockets of the prison system, DOJ, and are terrified of the police unions and DA's. So I find it unsurprising that so called liberal people like the Clinton's (who I don't like) and the Democratic party are apart of the gravy train called the war on drugs. Do you know how many people in our justice system and law enforcement would be out of a job? More than a few.

                And neither do liberals, but that sure doesn't stop liberals from attacking anybody who doesn't hold to their position by throwing them in jail, while several of their own break laws themselves. There's this saying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Liberals should stop throwing stones until they start jailing their own and actually enforcing laws on the books instead of just enforcing the ones they agree with while condemning conservatives for doing what they do themselves.
                Do you know how many people have been arrested for drugs, prostitution, and gambling in this country? It's a pretty big number, and conservatives were happy to make laws and screw-up the lives of any person that didn't go along with them. Why is it you guys get to impose your morals through law making, but others doing the same is tyranny?

                Hell, conservatives tried to create constitutional amendments banning any kind of union between same-sex couples and they attempted to use law as way of imposing their morals on others, and then it all back fired in their face dramatically. I'm sure if the laws had been reversed and a clerk had tried to issue licenses to gay couples when such laws weren't on the books, conservatives would have advocated charging that person with a crime. You guys are just complaining that you lost the war that you started in the mid 90's.
                Last edited by Sea of red; 09-05-2015, 09:51 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                  I couldn't care less. Whether it was before or after, it shows that she didn't take her marriages very seriously to an extent, that she failed multiple times at them. You would think that those experiences would have humbled her as an individual, rather than make her so arrogant and self-righteous. You don't get to so easily just walk away from your past actions when you're going to preach and condemn others - when your failures are far more serious.
                  Perhaps she became a Christian because those experiences did humble her? Did you ever think of that, in your self righteous judgments towards anybody that doesn't agree with you? It's always fascinating to me how many atheist really do not have a spirit of forgiveness or love within them and often turn out to be as judgmental and self righteous as they accuse religious people as being. The fact of the matter is that you and your buddy here are engaging in slut shaming and showing everybody who here has the spirit of love and forgiveness and who doesn't. I don't know her and I can't make any sort of judgment about her character or if she changed or not and can only make judgements with information I actually have on hand, unlike you, who seems to automatically think you can. Do tell how you gained this superpower to automatically know this sort of information or are you as judgment and self righteous as you accuse her as being?

                  Well, that hardly surprises me. That accusation is off your greatest hits record of psychological projections.
                  And yet, you're the one making the self righteous judgments here towards people you don't even know while I prefer to not engage in that sort of nonsense. She is a sinner, just like me and those who understand that reality see what you are doing here. If anybody is 'psychologically projecting' that is you, not I because I'm not the one engaging in slut shaming and acting as though I'm so much better than everybody who doesn't agree with me.

                  The war on drugs is a business venture for both Democrats and Republicans. They are both historically in the back pockets of the prison system, DOJ, and are terrified of the police unions and DA's. So I find it unsurprising that so called liberal people like the Clinton's (who I don't like) and the Democratic party are apart of the gravy train called the war on drugs. Do you know how many people in our justice system and law enforcement would be out of a job? More than a few.
                  And that is relevant to the idea that liberals have no rights to tell anybody to follow the law or go to jail due to the fact many of them frequently break laws they disagree with, how? You're dodging the reality because if Ms Davis can be thrown in jail for 'breaking the law', Clinton and all the rest of them should be sitting behind bars for ignoring laws themselves.

                  Do you know how many people have been arrested for drugs, prostitution, and gambling in this country? It's a pretty big number, and conservatives were happy to make laws and screw-up the lives of any person that didn't go along with them. Why is it you guys get to impose your morals through law making, but others doing the same is tyranny?
                  And why do you get to impose your morals though law making and throw people into jail, who don't comply?

                  Hell, conservatives tried to create constitutional amendments banning any kind of union between same-sex couples and they attempted to use law as way of imposing their morals on others, and then it all back fired in their face dramatically. I'm sure if the laws had been reversed and a clerk had tried to issue licenses to gay couples when such laws weren't on the books, conservatives would have advocated charging that person with a crime. You guys are just complaining that you lost the war that you started in the mid 90's.
                  And liberals do the same thing, but of course it is always the fault of others when things don't go your way. Do tell, why do you get to pass laws, based on your morality, and nobody else can? What gives you that same right you want denied to others?
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Perhaps she became a Christian because those experiences did humble her? Did you ever think of that, in your self righteous judgments towards anybody that doesn't agree with you? It's always fascinating to me how many atheist really do not have a spirit of forgiveness or love within them and often turn out to be as judgmental and self righteous as they accuse religious people as being. The fact of the matter is that you and your buddy here are engaging in slut shaming and showing everybody who here has the spirit of love and forgiveness and who doesn't. I don't know her and I can't make any sort of judgment about her character or if she changed or not and can only make judgements with information I actually have on hand, unlike you, who seems to automatically think you can. Do tell how you gained this superpower to automatically know this sort of information or are you as judgment and self righteous as you accuse her as being?
                    I'm calling a spade a spade. I don't need to forgive and love her for anything; that whole thing means nothing to me. I extend to others what they extend to me and if they don't like it, well then that's too bad. What you're showing me is that you'll take any kind of hypocritical bum into your camp so long as they partake in a kind of activism you feel is for a greater cause. Sorry, I've got standards that I set by looking at peoples actions and how it has grounded them as a person; she fails at both miserably. But you guys can have her.

                    And yet, you're the one making the self righteous judgments here towards people you don't even know while I prefer to not engage in that sort of nonsense. She is a sinner, just like me and those who understand that reality see what you are doing here. If anybody is 'psychologically projecting' that is you, not I because I'm not the one engaging in slut shaming and acting as though I'm so much better than everybody who doesn't agree with me.
                    Well, I don't believe in your sins and so I don't really care about that. I think you're only being charitable towards this moral hypocrite because she backs your religious ethics, and nothing else more. And there's nothing wrong with shaming someone if there is a basis to it - especially when that person wants to condemn others. If this was an atheist with a reverse moral hypocrisy you guys would be all over them.

                    And that is relevant to the idea that liberals have no rights to tell anybody to follow the law or go to jail due to the fact many of them frequently break laws they disagree with, how? You're dodging the reality because if Ms Davis can be thrown in jail for 'breaking the law', Clinton and all the rest of them should be sitting behind bars for ignoring laws themselves.
                    The Clinton should be in prison for a long time, indeed.

                    And why do you get to impose your morals though law making and throw people into jail, who don't comply?
                    I don't. I'm very resistant to incarcerating people for anything other than violent behavior.

                    And liberals do the same thing, but of course it is always the fault of others when things don't go your way. Do tell, why do you get to pass laws, based on your morality, and nobody else can? What gives you that same right you want denied to others?
                    I don't want to do that. I'm just saying when it happens to those that practice the same methods, they shouldn't complain about it. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
                      I'm calling a spade a spade.
                      No, you're holding the sins of another person over their head, so you can slut shame them into agreeing with you. I wonder if you would like it if somebody did the same thing to you or is slut shaming only ok when done to people you disagree with?


                      I don't need to forgive and love her for anything; that whole thing means nothing to me. I extend to others what they extend to me and if they don't like it, well then that's too bad. What you're showing me is that you'll take any kind of hypocritical bum into your camp so long as they partake in a kind of activism you feel is for a greater cause. Sorry, I've got standards that I set by looking at peoples actions and how it has grounded them as a person; she fails at both miserably. But you guys can have her.
                      So she personally harmed you, so you have the total right to destroy anybody who dares to disagree with you? Yet, you complain when I insult you? Wow, you're quite an interesting character there... I also see you still refuse to even acknowledge that you're flat wrong on your blind accusation of what a 'hypocrite' actually is. Now let me make this into big bold letter so you'll actually read and respond to it:

                      HOW COULD SHE BE A HYPOCRITE, WHEN HER LAST DIVORCE WAS 6 YEARS AGO AND HER CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY WAS 4 YEARS AGO?

                      You mean that she didn't follow the beliefs of a religion she didn't yet believe? Imagine that. Perhaps you could at least acknowledge the fault in your logic there or do you just prefer to engage in classic slut shaming and holding the sins of other people over their heads so you can drop it on top of them the second they dare to disagree with you. Before I was a Christian, I engaged in per material sex before I believed it was wrong to engage in. Perhaps you'd like to use that to slut shame me too while you're on your rants for demanding sexuality purity from your opponents, while you're allowed to do whatever you please.

                      Well, I don't believe in your sins and so I don't really care about that. I think you're only being charitable towards this moral hypocrite because she backs your religious ethics, and nothing else more. And there's nothing wrong with shaming someone if there is a basis to it - especially when that person wants to condemn others. If this was an atheist with a reverse moral hypocrisy you guys would be all over them.
                      Sure you do because you're using them right now to slut shame people who dare to disagree with you, so are those divorces wrong or are they only wrong when your opponents agree with you? Of course, I am being charitable because that is what my faith actually says to be. Ms Davis had 3 divorces before she was a Christian. Ok, so what? I hope her sins are as separate from her as the east is from the west. Second, I wouldn't care if she was an atheist or not because I don't care for holding the sins of others over their heads to drop it on top of them the second they fall out of line. Finally, how could anybody engage in hypocrisy, if they didn't think what they were doing was wrong, at the time they did it? Hypocrisy is BELIEVING one thing while doing the opposite of what you believe. Mr Dugger is a hypocrite because he said one thing and did another. Ms Davis is not because at the time of her sins, she wasn't a Christian and I have no evidence to conclude that she was condemning divorce, in that time frame. Believe it or not, words do have meanings and you can't make them say whatever you want them to say. Can you prove that Ms Davis believed divorce was wrong 6 years ago or are you just using words that you clearly don't know the meaning of?

                      The Clinton should be in prison for a long time, indeed.
                      So why isn't that happening right now?

                      I don't. I'm very resistant to incarcerating people for anything other than violent behavior.
                      And yet, you're here defending this action. What 'violent' behavior did Ms Davis engage in?

                      I don't want to do that. I'm just saying when it happens to those that practice the same methods, they shouldn't complain about it. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
                      Do you have any evidence that Ms Davis supports those laws or not? (I don't and again, I don't have any evidence if she does or doesn't, so I can't say either way). The reality is though if liberal groups/people cared about laws, a whole lot of people should be sitting in jail right now due to not following federal or state laws (IE drug or immigration laws). This is the reality and nothing will change that. Should laws be absolutely held up or not?
                      Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-06-2015, 08:16 AM.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment

                      Related Threads

                      Collapse

                      Topics Statistics Last Post
                      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
                      14 responses
                      75 views
                      1 like
                      Last Post rogue06
                      by rogue06
                       
                      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
                      6 responses
                      61 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
                      1 response
                      23 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post rogue06
                      by rogue06
                       
                      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
                      0 responses
                      22 views
                      2 likes
                      Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
                      7 responses
                      57 views
                      0 likes
                      Last Post whag
                      by whag
                       
                      Working...
                      X