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(Recruiting Thread) Ruceeglaelstkinag: A Study in Applied Christian Theology of War

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  • #31
    How racially diverse are the cities and villages we can expect to visit? Are we most likely to find predominantly human (or even predominantly PHB-race) settlements in Rucee? You elucidated on the Vedag races, a bit more, but they seem to be more of this setting's barbaroi or outsiders. What kinds of stares are a party of a giant cat-man, a kobold, and a halfling likely to receive?

    You mentioned that one area is democratic as a sort of experiment. Does this mean that we are far more likely to be in feudal lands? Are there any customs which we should know regarding traveling through such lands?

    You also mentioned that Dragons fare prominently in the politics of the region. How likely is it that our party would have had dealings with dragons, or would even have been witness to them?

    How common is Magic, in this setting? You've made clear that it plays a very up-front role in the justice system, but is the average person likely to be very comfortable with a magic user or with magic items? So far, our party's characters aren't of the casting sort (Swordsage, Rogue, and Monk), but it is quite likely we'll have magic items. And though I'm going to attempt to be discrete with my Lycanthropy, would it shock a bystander if they happened to witness me shapeshift (perhaps due to an Involuntary Change or somesuch)?

    Is the Christianity in this setting largely centralized and hierarchical, as was the Western Church in the medieval period? Or is it more diverse, as Christianity became in the centuries following the Reformation? And how much influence does religion have over the state? We've already been told that some civil laws are based upon religious tenets, but how far does this extend?

    That's all I've got for now, but I'm sure I'll come up with some more as I think on them.
    "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
    --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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    • #32
      Some of my previous comments may have given the wrong impression on what sort of questions I want so let me say the following:
      The only stupid question is the one you fail to ask. However questions to lay the theological/moral/ethical groundwork, or understand the problems better are the ones I am especially "hungry" for at this time. Please ask ALL your questions, but be especially focused on coming up with questions along the lines of "Would you agree that (X moral, ethical, and/or theological principle) is true?" and/or "What is Rucee's policy on (given circumstance that might come up at a war-crime , law-enforcement, or situation of warfare)?".
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      How racially diverse are the cities and villages we can expect to visit?
      Mostly: not very diverse.

      But I suspect you may be making a fundamentally flawed assumption in that you seem to think that any significant portion of the campaign is going to happen in what I am going to call "Ruceeglaelskitinag Proper". "Ruceeglaelsktinag Proper" would be the territory Ruceeglaelsktinag has held for multiple centuries).

      Most of the campaign as I forsee it is going to be happening in or very near the areas of the Vedag that Rucee is currently engaged in conquering/pacifying/whatever you want to call it (note, they don't intend to hold this territory in the long term, just like they didn't the last two times). Rucee proper is generally BORING from an adventuring POV, so you would mostly be going there to relax far away from the front lines, and (from a plot POV) have intellectual discussion with various experts and courtiers, pundits, etc etc etc.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      Are we most likely to find predominantly human (or even predominantly PHB-race) settlements in Rucee?
      In Rucee proper? Mixed race settlements are much more common... which isn't to say that they are technically common at all, but it isn't that human and gnomes (for example) wouldn't get along as neighbors, it is just a matter of genetics and perhaps ergonomics. Even Rucee is agrarian enough that the settlements mostly tend to be pretty small. Also travel is pretty difficult for the average person (even in the relatively advanced Rucee). Maybe think the American West BEFORE the invention of the railway??? (Not sure if I made my Knowledge[History] roll there...). Anyway, the average settlement already has to have concerns about preventing in-breeding, and having a 50/50 split between two non-genetically-interacting* races halves the size of the local gene pools for all practical purposes.

      *Sufficiently high level clerics of Allurehn totally have spells to fix that, either by changing races of one of the prospective couple, or just flat out telling the normal laws of genetics to sit down and shut up. They generally prefer to keep that down to a dull roar since they have other things to do with those spell slots, not to mention any gold and/or XP costs.

      Larger cities in Rucee proper tend to be much more mixed.

      In either case, having accommodations usable by various sizes (and even shapes!) of intelligent beings is somewhat of a burden, although most Ruceeglaelstkinagians would agree it is well worth it. This is VERY roughly analogous to the "Handicapped Accessible" laws that apply in America.

      In the Vedag, even most larger settlements are less integrated, but there are many notible exceptions. In other words, don't hold me to that.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      You elucidated on the Vedag races, a bit more, but they seem to be more of this setting's barbaroi or outsiders.
      Perhaps, but this sentence is one of the major reason I concluded that you misunderstood where the campaign was mostly going to be taking place.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      What kinds of stares are a party of a giant cat-man, a kobold, and a halfling likely to receive?
      Noticeably more than a less exotic mix of "heroic professionals" I guess?

      The fact that you are wearing the uniform-like markings of lawful combatants, and carrying equipment that looks REALLY good (mithril, the precious metal and gemstone of many magic items, etc) is going to color how people see you much more than your races as far as first conversations go.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post

      You mentioned that one area is democratic as a sort of experiment. Does this mean that we are far more likely to be in feudal lands?
      Yes, although many of them are more Absolute Monarchy/Despotism/Dictatorship/etc than something with the balances of the Feudal System. This includes Ruceeglaelsktinag itself, in as much as the King can remove any noble from power at any time, overrule any law for any reason (and generally he will state why, because he likes teaching and trust like that).
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      Are there any customs which we should know regarding traveling through such lands?
      That would require Knowledge[Geography], Knowledge[Local], and/or even Knowledge[Nobility and Royalty]. Speaking of which, take a a free rank in your choice of the first two of those skills for getting discussion moving in a half-way decent direction.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      You also mentioned that Dragons fare prominently in the politics of the region. How likely is it that our party would have had dealings with dragons, or would even have been witness to them?
      You've definitely seen them. Might have even talked to one directly, but maybe not.

      Dragons in this setting don't live in isolated lairs. Most Lawful dragons have most of their wealth invested*, and/or as magic items they are wearing. Even the Chaotics have a much longer-term and pragmatic view than the stereo-typical fantasy dragon. Most of they aren't exactly sociable because they are too busy being important and getting stuff done. They tend to be a tiny bit paranoid.

      *The closest thing to a stereotypical hoard that is common is something on the level of "This is my art gallery situated on a choice piece of real-estate in a city of 4000, the gallery is designed so I can stand in the center of it and see every piece. I own everything in it. Thursdays through Saturdays the admission price is 50 gold pieces per head, and there are complimentary Hors d'Oeuvers. Monday through Wednesdays it is 2 coppers because I wish to give the common folk something nice while also adding to my income-base."
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      How common is Magic, in this setting? You've made clear that it plays a very up-front role in the justice system, but is the average person likely to be very comfortable with a magic user or with magic items?
      More comfortable in Rucee Proper. Think of it as the difference between technology levels in the first versus third worlds... maybe a few RL decades back too? Also, keep in mind that most of the magic items you are walking around with are war-gear. Anyone with a lick of sense (which won't be everyone by a Loooong shot) is going to be more focused on the fact that you are carrying the equivalent of an assault rifle, possibly with underslung grenade launcher, than the fact that they haven't seen stuff as well-made as that before.

      In the Vedag, war-gear is going to be more familiar to them than the mundane magic items that exist in almost every village in Rucee proper...

      For instance (all of these are in Rucee):
      A wealthy person in Rucee is much more likely to have a Cloak of Endure Elements that keeps him comfortable regardless of the temperature that day rather than a Cloak of Resistance +1 ... although he might have some sort of item that gives him +3 to saves against disease, because getting sick is no fun.

      In a crisis, the first potions the local sheriff of a town that is impoverished enough to NOT have a continuous +1 weapon in it (rather than something temporarily enchanted) is going to check his stock of are going to be the ones that let one of his elite reserve (Think S.W.A.T) skip a night's sleep with no ill effects, so they can remain armored up and fully alert and ready to rush out the door if trouble comes up. Of course the Oils of Magic Weapon that let his troops have a chance against incorporeal creatures are also pretty important but it is ONLY incorporeals, since DR/Magic can usually be dealt with in a pinch by dogpiling the threat, tying it up, and then either drowning or burning it... or KEEPING it tied up until a dealer in spell components can show up to kill it more humanely and then give us a bunch of gold for the item-crafting components that its body constitutes.

      Most villages have some sort of arcane spellcaster, and a village that can't get a divine caster of at least 2nd level in within 24 hours notice is considered to be dangerously isolated, and someone will probably be sent out to live there to correct the problem.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      So far, our party's characters aren't of the casting sort (Swordsage, Rogue, and Monk),
      There is theoretically a sorcerer, and I did mention a gnomish druid. Sidenote: Animal companions tend to be characters in their own right in terms of raw power, so that is one more "psuedo-tank" in the party. In this case it also means I expect them to be roleplayed.

      The sorcerer... well, let's just say that without an arcane spellcaster in the first mission, y'all are probably going to have a REALLY bad time of it but I'm not going to say why, since I expect y'all to figure that out for yourselves based on the mission briefing and hopefully asking intelligent questions. As such, even if his player drops out I might provide an NPC, although I might make you figure out why you need said NPC before I grant them...
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      but it is quite likely we'll have magic items. And though I'm going to attempt to be discrete with my Lycanthropy, would it shock a bystander if they happened to witness me shapeshift (perhaps due to an Involuntary Change or somesuch)?
      Yes, but "adventurers"* are expected to be weirdos.

      *Some of whom are heroic, and the ones that survive of which are professional.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      Is the Christianity in this setting largely centralized and hierarchical, as was the Western Church in the medieval period? Or is it more diverse, as Christianity became in the centuries following the Reformation?
      More that second one. Note that I don't think of myself of being either knowledgeable or interested in Church History. I'm interested in what can be proven about God based on assumptions I find reasonable, not what people think about him, much less what they thought about him in past eras... of course, a lot of people would claim that the leadings of the Holy Spirit or some such means that such history is important, but I have my reasons for being dubious of that claim. Mostly it is the idea that differences of opinion demonstrate that most of the positions have to be wrong, and my idea the Holy Spirit USUALLY only leads within the limits of the imagination of the person seeking its guidance.

      ...I mention all that only as part of my ongoing attempts to explain what the sorts of analysis I'm trying to create with this campaign are.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      Is And how much influence does religion have over the state? We've already been told that some civil laws are based upon religious tenets, but how far does this extend?
      Basically, King Rucee is a Christian, believes (correctly) that the Warders are fallible archangels, and rules (with absolute power) accordingly. He doesn't generally appoint religious authorities to positions of temporal authority, still less clerics. The average Duke in Rucee has their class levels in a modified version of Expert, and most of their combat training would focus on how to react to let their guards best protect them from assassination attempts.

      It isn't that being a Pastor means you CAN'T also be a Judge, or Duke or whatever, it is just that both are very time consuming things to do correctly. It would be like being a practicing doctor and a pastor. Sure it happens, especially in smaller communities, but generally the positions are separate for purely practical reasons.
      Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
      That's all I've got for now, but I'm sure I'll come up with some more as I think on them.
      Please do.

      Trying to find some common ground with me so you can build your in-character arguments from that would be a step I'm very hungry to see taken.

      You all should feel comfortable to bring up any concept, no matter how weird or "stupid", as long as it is not mired down in emotional arguments and such, but rather rests on shared foundations... the first step should be to discover those shared foundations. I DEEPLY hunger for systematic and rational thought, and hope we all can grow towards it together, regardless of where we each start from in our knowledge and understanding.

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      • #33
        Alright, I've never made a sheet before so forgive me, I've got mine abilities, and all that mess set up, and now I'm working on my skills, how many skills should I have, and how do I assign points/ levels to them?

        Also, I know I've got the Dwarven handaxe, and the waraxe, but what do I put down for their damages, I don't know where to find this, and wherever I was getting info from, it was different from yours, and I'm gonna go ahead and use the interesting item you set up for my character, so how would I put that on le sheet.

        Random question, If three people are fighting in a street, and one man stabs another man, but no one's watching when said man is stabbed and the blade is on the ground by the time someone get there, how does this get dealt with by Rucee, people working for Rucee, or his clerics?

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        • #34
          Most, but not all, of the more basic rules for D&D can be found, free and legal, at www.d20srd.org . The major exception is the point-buy costs for ability scores, which are one of the very few things I prefer providing by PM here, rather than in a public thread.

          Originally posted by ForrestGump View Post
          Alright, I've never made a sheet before so forgive me, I've got mine abilities, and all that mess set up, and now I'm working on my skills, how many skills should I have, and how do I assign points/ levels to them?
          Look at your class (Rogue in this case). That will tell you how many skill points you get, and what your class skills are. Class skills cost 1 skill point for one rank (which then gets modified by the relevant ability score modifier, synergy bonuses (if any) etc), and you can have a maximum of 7 (Class levels +3) in a class skill.

          Cross class ranks cost twice as much (and a FEW skills you can't even put ranks into if it isn't a class skill), and have half the rank maximum (3.5 in this case).
          Originally posted by ForrestGump View Post
          Also, I know I've got the Dwarven handaxe, and the waraxe, but what do I put down for their damages, I don't know where to find this, and wherever I was getting info from, it was different from yours, and I'm gonna go ahead and use the interesting item you set up for my character, so how would I put that on le sheet.
          http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm

          Just have a note in the weapons field(s) in whatever way makes things clearest to you. A more detailed desciption should go in the "Notes" section that is the second to last thing on the web page.
          Originally posted by ForrestGump View Post
          Random question, If three people are fighting in a street, and one man stabs another man, but no one's watching when said man is stabbed and the blade is on the ground by the time someone get there, how does this get dealt with by Rucee, people working for Rucee, or his clerics?
          Clerics working for Rucee would be a subset of "people working for Rucee"... unless you meant people who worship Rucee, in which case those worshippers would be guilty of a death-penalty crime.

          King Rucee wouldn't be personally involved with something like that during the investigation phase.

          If they have magic to throw around: Speak with Dead.

          If not: Ask questions of people in the area, use bloodhounds, find out who the victim was then work from there... all the usual methods that one might expect from a primitive police force with somewhat modern sensibilities?

          The question is too broad for me to be sure I'm answering the part of it you actually care about.

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          • #35
            Correction of earlier statement I made: Democracy is going to be more common than Feudalism in the areas of the Vedag you are going to mostly be adventuring in. Of course that can mean that, fearful of change and voting for the only locals* with experience in governance the the leader who joined the war against Rucee keeps got elected and is likely to keep getting reelected... or that person's heir if Rucee executed the former leader (at the hand of said heir if there were war crimes involved) or killed the former leader in battle**.

            *Most of the Vedag has an extra-strong desire for self-rule... this is very unfortunate.
            ** Leading from the front is somewhat popular in the Vedag.

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            • #36
              Real-life giving me big problems, and the rate of questions seems to have fallen off during this Labor-Day Weekend.

              Will try to do something when I can, but this is NOT looking like a good week for me.

              At least I'm telling you all as events come up, and I expect the same courtesy in return in future.

              EDIT: Once again: Really looking for some questions regarding y'all trying to find common ground you can use to argue (or rather, build analysis and/or proof) from.
              Last edited by Draco Dei; 09-05-2015, 11:57 AM.

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              • #37
                How much do each of our characters care about/know one another, I know ultimately that can change, but we're starting at lvl. 4, did we gain the xp and gold that we had alone, or have we been together as a group for a while now, and trust each other a decent amount, or was that from our first adventure together?
                Also, I know this is a more Christian nation, and for clerics it's a death penalty to worship a god because of the whole empowered spell casting thing, but can a character still worship a god of their choice, and then pray to be granted things; for instance, if we had a barbarian who worshiped the god of war for his people, and decided to kill 50 or so people, and that god was pleased with the killing so they granted him some divine power, or an expensive gift, how would this go with the rules that are in place.

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                • #38
                  I'll probably have that IC thread I mentioned up sometime between a few hours from now to three days.

                  Originally posted by ForrestGump View Post
                  How much do each of our characters care about/know one another, I know ultimately that can change, but we're starting at lvl. 4, did we gain the xp and gold that we had alone, or have we been together as a group for a while now, and trust each other a decent amount, or was that from our first adventure together?
                  My default idea is that y'all have talked a lot and maybe done a LITTLE adventuring. Trust is much preferred on my part (things are going to be hard enough for the characters and the players without PCs having to watch their backs against their fellows). That said:
                  1.) "Trust" doesn't equal "Need to Know" in the military sense.
                  2.) I'd be open to divergences from this, but y'all might want to ask about the specific cases. You can even use PMs to ask if you really feel that discussing it in public would be too difficult for your fellow players trying to keep IC and OOC knowledge separate.

                  Originally posted by ForrestGump View Post
                  Also, I know this is a more Christian nation, and for clerics it's a death penalty to worship a god because of the whole empowered spell casting thing, but can a character still worship a god of their choice, and then pray to be granted things; for instance, if we had a barbarian who worshiped the god of war for his people, and decided to kill 50 or so people, and that god was pleased with the killing so they granted him some divine power, or an expensive gift, how would this go with the rules that are in place.
                  "Empowerment" a matter of the being being worshiped, not their "default" relationship with the specific worshiper. In other words, worshiping Boccob, even if he never does a thing for you and you have no divine powers is a death penalty offense. Worshiping "Nature" or Allah? Not unless it causes problems.

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                  • #39
                    Reminder*: Characters don't necessarily need to be complete when roleplaying starts.

                    *BTW, still having a LOT of problems adjusting to the 45 minute rule on these forums.

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                    • #40
                      Okay, let's get this party started! ... or at least the non-mechanical roleplaying portions of it.

                      Commentary/OOC(Out-Of-Character) Thread

                      Game/IC(In-Character) Thread

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                      • #41
                        I'll post in the thread tomorrow Draco, probably around 7 p.m. central.

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                        • #42
                          That information is much appreciated!

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                          • #43
                            Name: Aldyr “Badgerson” Elaris
                            Race: Forest Gnome
                            Age: 50
                            Class: Druid
                            Height: 3’2” Weight: 45 lbs.
                            Green eyes and green-grey skin.
                            Description (Stats): +2 Constitution, -2 Strength, Low-light Vision, Speak with Burrowing Animals
                            Personality: Aldyr is introverted unless surrounded by those he feels comfortable with and is not very talkative and uncomfortable when in the presence of too many unknown people. His trustworthiness and altruism gained him the position he had back home. He is an organized individual and becomes slightly flustered if his belongings are not arranged in a particular manner. His imagination runs rampant and he will become lost in thought at times.
                            Alignment: Lawful Good
                            Tactical: Aldyr prefers the use of mental acuity in combat to either devise a plan to capture or incapacitate opponents rather than annihilate them or attack with brute force.
                            Backstory: I taught in the Vedag throughout the first few rebellions, then realized that the Rucee proper was more peaceful, and I could spread the ways of peace, and teach more efficiently there, so I started traveling around the countryside until I ended up with this fine band of adventurers I hope to call friends over some time together. In our adventures together, I hope to gain some experience myself, and to help resolve the problems between these two nations, and then continue working for Rucee to move towards a complete peace.
                            Me: I’m looking to become familiarized with D&D play style as well as participating in intelligent discussion.


                            I hope I did it all properly. Sorry it took so long.

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