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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.
This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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Gender Neutral Pronouns
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1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostThat calls for punishment.
Mossy - Oh Mossy ..... . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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The Old English Dictionary has been updated since the last time I looked: There is at least one word for woman in each grammatical gender.
Modern English Part of Speech Old English Inflections Notes
woman .............nf......... cwēn
woman .............nf. ........frēo cf. German Frau
woman .............nf. ........frōwe
woman .............nf. ........fǣmne
woman .............nf. ........ides
woman .............nf. ........mægþ
woman ............nn. ........wīf
woman nm. wīfmann
married woman ....nn. ........hǣmedwīfLast edited by tabibito; 08-31-2015, 11:36 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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CooI! Thanks Guys!"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt kind of came as a shock to me too. The Dictionary of Old English went into a fair bit of detail - "woman" was "wyfman" retained in modern English as "wife", and a few other bits and pieces that I can't remember the detail for.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostMaybe it was related to a view of women or wives more akin to that of property rather than as possessing full personhood??1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIf anything, it would tend to the opposite. The grammatical gender, insofar as wyfman is concerned, made no distinction between male and female.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Generally, that would be grammatical neuter, or occasionally even 1 of 2 grammatical neuters.
German uses three grammatical genders, Hebrew two, Koine Greek three.
Using German as an example:
Dog is grammatically masculine: the correct pronoun for a dog, whether male or female is "he" - as also "table."
Cat is grammatically feminine: the correct pronoun, whether tom or queen, is "she" - as also "door"
Horse is grammatically neuter: the correct pronoun, stallion or mare, is "it" - as also "window"
(unless of course the relevant pronoun for the animal refers to a specified "bitch", "tom", or "stallion" or "mare".)
Grammatical gender does not apply to the object being described by the word, but only to the word itself.Last edited by tabibito; 08-31-2015, 02:43 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostGenerally, that would be grammatical neuter, or occasionally even 1 of 2 grammatical neuters.
German uses three grammatical genders, Hebrew two, Koine Greek three.
Using German as an example:
Dog is grammatically masculine: the correct pronoun for a dog, whether male or female is "he"
Cat is grammatically feminine: the correct pronoun, whether tom or queen, is "she"
Horse is grammatically neuter: the correct pronoun, stallion or mare, is "it"
(unless of course the relevant pronoun refers to a specified "bitch", "tom", or "stallion" or "mare".
Grammatical gender does not apply to the object being described by the word, but only to the word itself.Last edited by robrecht; 08-31-2015, 02:59 PM.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Grammatical gender can cause headaches when translating.
"(masculine) Cephas" - "the rock" in Aramaic translates to "(feminine) Petra" in Koine Greek - no problem if you're talking about an actual rock, but something has to be done when it is a name - can't have a man running around with a feminine name. Easy fixed: change the feminine "a" ending to the masculine "os" (incidentally reintroducing an obsolete word for rock) ... Then watch the feathers fly when theologians try to make a point on the basis of the different endings.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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