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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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Gender Neutral Pronouns

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "Woman" has a much simpler entomology....

    When God caused Adam to go into a deep sleep, and removed a rib, and created Eve, Adam woke up, took one look at her, and said.....


    WOAH!!!! MAN!!!!!!


    It has since evolved into "woman".



    I'll be leaving now.

    That calls for punishment.



    Mossy - Oh Mossy ....
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      That calls for punishment.



      Mossy - Oh Mossy ....
      Ah, me thinks CP should be given a break on this. Adam Clarke wrote, " . . . .Our own term is equally proper when understood. Woman has been defined by many as compounded of wo and man, as if called man's wo because she tempted him to eat the forbidden fruit; but this is no meaning of the original word, nor could it be intended, as the transgression was not then committed. The truth is, our term is a proper and literal translation of the original, and we may thank the discernment of our Anglo-Saxon ancestors for giving it. The Anglo-Saxon word, of which woman is a contraction, means the man with the womb. . . ." Which is the reason I even looked into the origin of the word "woman" in the first place.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #18
        The Old English Dictionary has been updated since the last time I looked: There is at least one word for woman in each grammatical gender.

        Modern English Part of Speech Old English Inflections Notes
        woman .............nf......... cwēn
        woman .............nf. ........frēo cf. German Frau
        woman .............nf. ........frōwe
        woman .............nf. ........fǣmne
        woman .............nf. ........ides
        woman .............nf. ........mægþ
        woman ............nn. ........wīf
        woman nm. wīfmann
        married woman ....nn. ........hǣmedwīf
        Last edited by tabibito; 08-31-2015, 11:36 AM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #19
          CooI! Thanks Guys!
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            It kind of came as a shock to me too. The Dictionary of Old English went into a fair bit of detail - "woman" was "wyfman" retained in modern English as "wife", and a few other bits and pieces that I can't remember the detail for.
            Maybe it was related to a view of women or wives more akin to that of property rather than as possessing full personhood??
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              Maybe it was related to a view of women or wives more akin to that of property rather than as possessing full personhood??
              If anything, it would tend to the opposite. The grammatical gender, insofar as wyfman is concerned, made no distinction between male and female.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                If anything, it would tend to the opposite. The grammatical gender, insofar as wyfman is concerned, made no distinction between male and female.
                So like an object or a child in some languages?
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #23
                  Generally, that would be grammatical neuter, or occasionally even 1 of 2 grammatical neuters.

                  German uses three grammatical genders, Hebrew two, Koine Greek three.

                  Using German as an example:
                  Dog is grammatically masculine: the correct pronoun for a dog, whether male or female is "he" - as also "table."
                  Cat is grammatically feminine: the correct pronoun, whether tom or queen, is "she" - as also "door"
                  Horse is grammatically neuter: the correct pronoun, stallion or mare, is "it" - as also "window"
                  (unless of course the relevant pronoun for the animal refers to a specified "bitch", "tom", or "stallion" or "mare".)

                  Grammatical gender does not apply to the object being described by the word, but only to the word itself.
                  Last edited by tabibito; 08-31-2015, 02:43 PM.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    Generally, that would be grammatical neuter, or occasionally even 1 of 2 grammatical neuters.

                    German uses three grammatical genders, Hebrew two, Koine Greek three.

                    Using German as an example:
                    Dog is grammatically masculine: the correct pronoun for a dog, whether male or female is "he"
                    Cat is grammatically feminine: the correct pronoun, whether tom or queen, is "she"
                    Horse is grammatically neuter: the correct pronoun, stallion or mare, is "it"
                    (unless of course the relevant pronoun refers to a specified "bitch", "tom", or "stallion" or "mare".

                    Grammatical gender does not apply to the object being described by the word, but only to the word itself.
                    Yes, I am familiar with these languages. There is sometimes some apparent correspondence (imagined or real), eg, I might be referred to in German as Der Robrecht, but never as Die Robrecht because I am a man and not a woman and children can be referred to with neuter nouns and diminutives in Greek, German, and Dutch, the latter two also being Germanic languages. Oftentimes there is no rhyme or reason, but sometimes there does appear to be a possible correspondence, sometimes only in the imagination of students trying to learn a foreign language.
                    Last edited by robrecht; 08-31-2015, 02:59 PM.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Grammatical gender can cause headaches when translating.
                      "(masculine) Cephas" - "the rock" in Aramaic translates to "(feminine) Petra" in Koine Greek - no problem if you're talking about an actual rock, but something has to be done when it is a name - can't have a man running around with a feminine name. Easy fixed: change the feminine "a" ending to the masculine "os" (incidentally reintroducing an obsolete word for rock) ... Then watch the feathers fly when theologians try to make a point on the basis of the different endings.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment

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