Christian Necrophobes

[Cow Poke]

No matter how you define death, biblically speaking, death is not something that had relevance in this world until god made it so.

Well, death CERTAINLY had no relevance until God created LIFE!

Of course in my opinion that is a lot of fairy tale nonsense so I actualy agree with you that god is not the cause of death.

Yeah, so typically dishonest of you, Jim. Can you SHOW me where I argued that God is not the cause of death? I have repeatedly said that God created life.

This looks more and more like an attack on Mossy, so I think I'll leave you to your ignorant folly.

[Adrift]

This looks more and more like an attack on Mossy.

Agreed. Don't you usually move personal attack threads to the Psycho Ward?

[whag]

Agreed. Don't you usually move personal attack threads to the Psycho Ward?

You misquoted him. Cow Poke said that.

This is challenging the views of Sparko and Mossy that death was introduced by humankind.

[Cow Poke]

Agreed. Don't you usually move personal attack threads to the Psycho Ward?

Some how, you managed to attribute my quote to 37818. But, yeah, great suggestion - I'll run it by the uppers.

[Adrift]

Some how, you managed to attribute my quote to 37818.

Darn it, It has to do with the multi-quote function. In the previous iteration of TWeb, if you used the multi-quote feature it would only last for one post. Now it seems to stay on permanently until you go back and turn the feature off on each post you multi-quoted. I had previously used the multi-quote option for both you and BIBLE. When I quoted you the second time, I noticed that I was re-quoting you both again, so I manually deleted the previous quotes, but apparently deleted the wrong quote tag.

long story short, the multi-quote feature is broke.

But, yeah, great suggestion - I'll run it by the uppers.

[Tassman]

Deny what fact?

The fact that all living things die.

And the reason there is death is because mankind rebelled against God

Nonsense! What you’re in effect saying is that “death” is retroactive, which is absurd. Many millions of species, e.g. the dinosaurs, went extinct long before the alleged sin of Adam brought death into the world. There have been five major extinction events alone.

But until you are faced with your own death you have no idea how you will react

It’s the pain of illness and dying which is mostly feared, not death itself…in my case at least. It’s best to deal with reality rather than live a lie by indulging in unsubstantiated escapist beliefs of eternal life.

Are you so sure there is no God that you are willing to bet your life on it?

Pretty much! Certainly the petty little gods of the world’s major religions are all too obviously idealized versions of Man, complete with their petty jealousies and desire for praise, to be taken seriously.

I am not afraid to die because I know something better than this life awaits me

I think you’re wrong.

The best you can look forward is non existence or worse

…”or worse”.

You lot just can’t help yourselves can you.

[Darth Executor]

I contend that some Christians who can't process the fact that God, if he exists, invented death are themselves fearful of death and probably converted for that shallow reason. Some, not all.

Why is that a shallow reason?

[Jichard]

Why is that a shallow reason?

Because fear of death does not make actually make it more likely that God exists. It's fallacious reasoning, an appeal to consequences where someone believes something because of the positive consequences they think belief will bring to them. It reduces theistic belief down to a selfish attempt to escape something one is scared of, like a child.

[Darth Executor]

Stars are a good example. They're not alive but we can't really call them dead. They serve as a great analogy for biological organisms: they are dynamic, eat and burn fuel, shed waste, and cease existing, just like all flora and fauna do.

They also reproduce. You could probably make a decent argument that stars are, in fact, alive.

[Darth Executor]

Because fear of death does not make actually make it more likely that God exists. It's fallacious reasoning, an appeal to consequences where someone believes something because of the positive consequences they think belief will bring to them. It reduces theistic belief down to a selfish attempt to escape something one is scared of, like a child.

You are telling me why it's not a logical proposition, but that's not what whag said or what I asked about. Shallow has nothing to do with truth or formal reasoning. A thing can be shallow and true and logically sound. It can also be deep and false. I want to know why whag thinks it's a shallow reason.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shallow?s=t

1.
of little depth; not deep:
shallow water.
2.
lacking depth; superficial:

[Jichard]

You are telling me why it's not a logical proposition, but that's not what whag said or what I asked about. Shallow has nothing to do with truth or formal reasoning. A thing can be shallow and true and logically sound. It can also be deep and false. I want to know why whag thinks it's a shallow reason.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shallow?s=t

Already explained why it's shallow: it reduces theistic belief down to a selfish attempt to escape something one is scared of, like a child.

Now, if someone wants to be like a little kid who believes whatever makes them feel good, then they're engaged in shallow wish-fulfillment.

[Darth Executor]

Already explained why it's shallow: it reduces theistic belief down to a selfish attempt to escape something one is scared of, like a child.

That doesn't really explain why it's shallow, though the explanation itself is, ironically, shallow.

Now, if someone wants to be like a little kid who believes whatever makes them feel good, then they're engaged in shallow wish-fulfillment.

There sure are a lot of little kids who look like adults running around.

[Tassman]

That doesn't really explain why it's shallow, though the explanation itself is, ironically, shallow.

Sure it does, it’s shallow in the sense of not exhibiting in depth serious thought; merely wish fulfilment i.e. (in psychology) the satisfaction of a desire through such processes as fantasising and neurotic symptoms.

There sure are a lot of little kids who look like adults running around.

Certainly, although it’s decreasing rapidly. “Fifty-nine percent of Millennials who grew up in a Christian church drop out of it permanently or for an extended period of time, according to research by Barna Group. Among the most common reasons for leaving are Millennials’ beliefs that churches are shallow, anti-science, overprotective, and promote simplistic, judgmental views of sexuality..."

http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews....p-its-a-thing/

Besides, your argument is a logical fallacy i.e. “Argumentum ad populum" which occurs when something is considered to be true solely because it is popular.

[KingsGambit]

That's a conundrum for the Christians who've asserted non-Christians fear a judgment.
.

I can't speak for others but I don't have much time for viewpoints that assert that all people think the same way.

[Sparko]

Death has existed since life has existed.



All living things has been dying for about 3.5 billion years before human beings.



I can't argue with that. We're all different.



We're both mammals who like persisting on the earth. I'd also seek treatment, just as you are doing, if my liver was failing.



All mammals want to live, and that's why you seek a new liver. We don't seek medical treatment during infirmity because we fear a religious judgment. Rather, we have a powerful survival drive.

Sure everyone wants to live. But to a Christian, death is more like immigrating to a better country where you won't see your friends and loved ones for a while, till they come over and join you. You are reluctant to go, but you know that a better life awaits you.

And the reason we use doctors and I am seeking treatment is that to Christians, life, especially human life (including our own) is precious and not to be squandered or tossed away. That is why Christians think suicide is wrong. So yes, I am seeking treatment. But if I don't get the treatment and die, I am not worried or scared.

1 Cor 15:When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”

As far as death having existed for billions of years, I am speaking of human death. And views on how long death itself has been around various among Christians. There are theistic evolutionists, young earth creationists, old earth creationists, etc. All of those views fall within the scope of Christianity.

Sure some atheists are stubborn enough to not believe in God on their deathbeds, but I think a majority will try to hedge their bets at that last minute and pray to God. And I think the more blusterous they are about being atheist now, the more they actually have doubts and want to convince themselves more than anyone else. Like Tassman. At least you admit you are an agnostic. That's a good start.